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JohnnyThompsonnum1

Strongest wrestlers

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I think evaulating athletes based on the era in which they competed is a legitimate way to look at their legacy. Some transcend their era. Dan Hodge is one; Dan Gable, another. It's hard to imagine either one allowing themselves to be anything but the best in terms of strength and skill, no matter what decade in which they competed.

 

Here's something interesting from the Ohio State track and field program. On March 29, 2013, Michael Hartfield broke the school outdoor long jump record with a 26' 9". The record he broke? That of Jesse Owens, from 1936, by 3/4".

 

Safe to say that Owens in his prime would be competitive today. He'd certainly make the Ohio State varsity team.

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I didn't find old dirty's analysis to be disrespectful. That's probably because I think that one should examine the strength of evidence for holding particular beliefs. Being offended is not a substitute for evidence or a sound argument. The is a debate about strong wrestlers, not peace in Palestine/Israel. Why are people getting so offended anyway? Hodge is a legend but he's not a god. An argument could be made that he is the strongest of his era, but all time is a different story. Is it anybody's fault there isn't more evidence for Hodge's strength? No but that doesn't change the fact that the evidence is mostly anecdotal and subjective. Given that in every other sport, the strength of athletes has likely been increasing, it doesn't seem unreasonable that the strength of wrestlers has increased as well.

 

One small quibble with old dirty's remarks is that I do think that cleans take a fair amount of technique to execute well. Technical improvements can greatly increase your numbers. Technical proficiency can also help guys avoid injury, especially with squats, dead lifts, and other exercises likely to give you disc problems if you execute them incorrectly. After seeing Iowa in the weight room on a number of occasions, I'm surprised they don't have more injuries. Some people seem to take pride in the number of knee surgeries they've had, but I've always found that to be absurd. Anybody that thinks back surgery is cool will be in for a very unpleasant surprise.

 

I also think that some programs are taking steps backwards by embracing cross fit style lifting programs. Cross fit is a scam. It's depressing watching so many programs waste money on tractor tires and sledge hammers.

 

Just for fun I'll add some names of guys that probably aren't the strongest of all time, but were some of the strongest guys I ever worked out with. Kerry Boumans was probably the strongest guy I ever stepped on the mat with. Roman Fleszar was a beast as well which was funny because he looked almost chubby. I'd rank these guys ahead of Prescott, Brands, and a few other national and world champs I had the chance to work out with.

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And Jesse did it probably on a dirt runway, with less nutritional advantage no doubt.

 

I think evaulating athletes based on the era in which they competed is a legitimate way to look at their legacy. Some transcend their era. Dan Hodge is one; Dan Gable, another. It's hard to imagine either one allowing themselves to be anything but the best in terms of strength and skill, no matter what decade in which they competed.

 

Here's something interesting from the Ohio State track and field program. On March 29, 2013, Michael Hartfield broke the school outdoor long jump record with a 26' 9". The record he broke? That of Jesse Owens, from 1936, by 3/4".

 

Safe to say that Owens in his prime would be competitive today. He'd certainly make the Ohio State varsity team.

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I think the only way you can compare people from era to era is by the difference between the other people of that era. What I mean is, how was Hodge compared to others during his time in terms of strength as a wrestler? The wrestler's of his time had the same access and knowledge as Hodge did and clearly he was stronger than most if not all. Same holds true to today's athletes. But you can't compare different era's cause things are not equal. To say that Hodge would get manhandled by some JC wrestlers if Hodge was in his prime at the same time as the JC wrestlers is completely ignorant and completely false.

 

The question was the strongest of all time, not the strongest of their era. You are saying my point is invalid, then bring absolutely nothing in terms of specific points on topic to support your claims other than "Olddirty is ignorant and what he says is false."

 

OD I could care less you have a masters in anything, you are an ignorant you know what. How about this....people that have masters are quitters....cause to get your PhD it is the same course work as a masters program, but to get your PhD you have to prove you can think and apply the knowledge....which apparently you were unable to do, or choose not to...and based on your posts and attitude, one can only assume it was because you know you couldn't.

 

Right, because if someone doesnt get a PhD while they are still competing, they are an ignorant quitter. If you think that a PhD holds the same course load and price tag of a masters degree, I have nothing to say other than I bow to your genius. You bring up someone who is not an ingnoramus to think and apply knowledge to subject matter. Could you please enlighten us with some content knowledge of strength across eras of culture and how they reinforce your opinion Hodge and modern era wrestlers?

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It's a strength event ?

 

A kid at north Phx HS held the National HS record for the shot put . Just over 72 ft. He did it in 1958 !! Some kid broke the record some 20 years later.

 

 

What's mind boggling about the guy is when he did it. And, the only type of weight training that he did back in 'that day' was just 'some' power lifting. However, no real weight training program. Not at all.

 

Plus a kid ....same HS... around the same time, threw the discus at the 200' mark. Same story on him. His HS records lasted till recent years.

 

The wrestling coach talked the shot put guy into joining the frosh/soph wrestling team. The kid soon tired of throwing opponents around the mat. So he soon went right back to his first love of throwing the shot.

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You are the one that stated that is your style to piss people off IMO that is not a very productive style. By the way I am not pissed off at you I just find you ignorant in your opinion on strength applied to wrestling.

 

Always, dirty is challenging people to critically think and find support for some of the old myths they've grown up with around wrestling. In my view he uses logical and persuasive reasoning despite you not liking his style. And the truth be known, I agree with him.

 

One thing I've admired about this sport is wrestlers have the balls to come out front and say, "I don't agree with you." Its just wrestlers should have thick skins and when presented with evidence that just might conflict with their perceptions, you look deeper and reevaluate them. Olddirty is okay by my book.

I just disagree that you can only be the strongest if you have been in some type of modern weight program. I also think that people that think that pissing people off is a positive thing in engaging in debate/conversation.

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I also think that people that think that pissing people off is a positive thing in engaging in debate/conversation.

 

There is no way to tell a group of people that their legendary hero's legacy might be based more on folklore than fact without pissing them off. When confronted with science and logic, people who are nostaligic will often times become disgruntled and offended, which is why I knew everyone was going to get their panties in a bunch when a differing logical thought process was brought into the equation.

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Master's in communication, or psychology?

 

Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence, of strength in this case. Evidence here being the particular measures you choose to label the only way to measure strength, particularly when it is related to a different activity (wrestling) than what is being measured.

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Master's in communication, or psychology?

 

Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence, of strength in this case. Evidence here being the particular measures you choose to label the only way to measure strength, particularly when it is related to a different activity (wrestling) than what is being measured.

 

Masters in Health science. There is no absence of evidence on the subject as a whole; there is a ton. There is an absence of evidence that supports the claims that Olympic athletes of yesteryear can compete with modern day Olympians in terms of strength. I did not claim that my way of measuring strength was the only way. When asked what my opinion was, I gave what the current model of testing is at the Olympic training center and said that I agreed with it. Others said they believed that squeezing an apple or pliers was an appropriate method to determine overall strength in a wrestler, in to which myself and a few others disagreed.

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All we have for quantifiable evidence of his strength is him squeezing apples. How is me bringing that up rude?

 

I believe modern day wrestlers at the JC level would out muscle him due to Hodge not doing any progressive strength training, and almost every single JC college wrestler having access to resistance training programs, modern science, advanced equipment, and certified strength coaches. How is that offensive?

 

I never said he didnt have above average results against wrestlers of his time. Could you address the above opinions with how you believe those facts correlate to Hodge being the strongest of all time?

 

All you have for specific evidence that Hodge isn't one of, if not the strongest of all time ... is your doubt.

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All we have for quantifiable evidence of his strength is him squeezing apples. How is me bringing that up rude?

 

I believe modern day wrestlers at the JC level would out muscle him due to Hodge not doing any progressive strength training, and almost every single JC college wrestler having access to resistance training programs, modern science, advanced equipment, and certified strength coaches. How is that offensive?

 

I never said he didnt have above average results against wrestlers of his time. Could you address the above opinions with how you believe those facts correlate to Hodge being the strongest of all time?

 

All you have for specific evidence that Hodge isn't one of, if not the strongest of all time ... is your doubt.

 

When dealing with hypothetical matchups, there isnt much specific records in this case to go off of. However, I have the exact numbers of progression of strength records amongst Olympic athletes dating back to the early 20th century. In addition, one can look at the advancements in sport science, recovery science, equipment advancements and training module advancements. Using all of that, it is plausible to form a differing opinion that an Olympic athlete of the past was not as strong as one of today. Someone could easily change my mind if they present a compelling argument.

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All we have for quantifiable evidence of his strength is him squeezing apples. How is me bringing that up rude?

 

I believe modern day wrestlers at the JC level would out muscle him due to Hodge not doing any progressive strength training, and almost every single JC college wrestler having access to resistance training programs, modern science, advanced equipment, and certified strength coaches. How is that offensive?

 

I never said he didnt have above average results against wrestlers of his time. Could you address the above opinions with how you believe those facts correlate to Hodge being the strongest of all time?

 

All you have for specific evidence that Hodge isn't one of, if not the strongest of all time ... is your doubt.

 

When dealing with hypothetical matchups, there isnt much specific records in this case to go off of. However, I have the exact numbers of progression of strength records amongst Olympic athletes dating back to the early 20th century. In addition, one can look at the advancements in sport science, recovery science, equipment advancements and training module advancements. Using all of that, it is plausible to form a differing opinion that an Olympic athlete of the past was not as strong as one of today. Someone could easily change my mind if they present a compelling argument.

 

You have no specific evidence on Hodge either way - you have no empirical evidence on his physiology or how he trained, yet you've chosen a position that includes him being lesser than modern JC wrestlers in terms of strength. Nothing about that conclusion is hard science.

 

I'm not trying to make a big deal out of this - I'm trying to end the big deal.

 

Simply put, your doubt doesn't hold up against a bunch of very experienced, very accomplished, and very well respected people who have personal knowledge of Danny Hodge and have provided incredibly interesting, relevant, and entertaining input. Believe what you will... but they have a stronger argument.

 

These posters have contributed so many great stories - this is one of the most interesting threads I've participated in for quite a while.

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denny,

 

Would that be Eldridge Wayne Coleman's record in the shot put you're speaking of? He also became a famous wrestler later on too.

 

If I may...I will step around the current bru-ha-ha. Trip, isn't Coleman that guy that went by the name of Billy Graham in Pro wrestling ?

 

As for my naming a shot putter/some time wrestler as a beast from way back in the day.

 

Dallas Long , in 1958 established a National and AZ state shot put record. That AZ state record stands (yet) today as the farthest throw ever.

 

"Believe it or not, in the mid 50's, it was believed that (lifting weights) would impair your ability as an athlete." Doctor Dallas Long

 

By the time that Dallas Long was 18,he was 6' 4" tall 255 pounds (did a little power lifting).

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Yes, Eldridge Wayne Coleman did eventually become "Superstar" Billy Graham. I knew he was a track guy, went to North High and at one point held some records in the throws, I think. Anyway he basically ruined his body using anabolic steroids in amounts that were known to cause side effects on lab animals. Not a pretty picture at all. I think he's had both hips replaced and maybe a knee replacement too, among other health problems. Really a shame what happened to him. He lives in North Phoenix somewhere and sells art while occasionally appearing at wrestling conventions.

 

Also as it pertains to the strength conversation, Graham at one point held the record for the heaviest bench press at 605 lbs. The current record is held by someone named Pat Casey at 616 lbs. Not much of a change from 1968 to now.

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Yes, Eldridge Wayne Coleman did eventually become "Superstar" Billy Graham. I knew he was a track guy, went to North High and at one point held some records in the throws, I think. Anyway he basically ruined his body using anabolic steroids in amounts that were known to cause side effects on lab animals. Not a pretty picture at all. I think he's had both hips replaced and maybe a knee replacement too, among other health problems. Really a shame what happened to him. He lives in North Phoenix somewhere and sells art while occasionally appearing at wrestling conventions.

 

Also as it pertains to the strength conversation, Graham at one point held the record for the heaviest bench press at 605 lbs. The current record is held by someone named Pat Casey at 616 lbs. Not much of a change from 1968 to now.

 

Pat Casey, who recently died, benched 600 40 years ago.

 

The current "raw" record (no bench shirt) is held by

Scot Mendelson, who benched 715 in 2005.

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Man OD....you continue to make my point with your comments, both on probably why you didn't get your PhD and how ridiculous your opinion is on this matter and holds no water. First you can't let your brain address the fact that you are trying to compare apples to oranges because you just happen to know how the current Olympic training center athletes training regiment, yet you have a clue what the training regiment was 50 years ago. And you can't use critical thinking and an analytical thought process to try and figure out a way to in fact compare today's athletes with those of 50+ years ago. You instead use one piece of evidence (and stuff you read out of a text book) to make a broad assumption and thus come to your opinion.

 

Finally, as far as what it takes to get a PhD....getting your PhD is actually probably much more conducive to what you claim your schedule to be seeing as research can be done at anytime of the day, whereas course work is usually scheduled at specific times. But obtaining a master’s in Health Science is it....good for you! Care to share any more things about yourself on here to show how smart and great you are?? I find it humorous when people feel they have to share their resume in order to get people to see how "smart" they are. Maybe prove it by what you post and write on here?? Taking tests and being able to remember what is in a book does not make one a scholar.

 

Funny thing is OD…..you MAY be correct about what you have written about Hodge….problem is, and you would have learned this if you stayed in school and learned to THINK instead of MEMORIZE, that you can change a lot of opinions and are able to make a more significant impact on people and their opinions if you are able to present your thoughts and opinions, as well as facts, in a logical and appropriate manner. So at the end of the day, you are getting exactly what you deserve in terms of your posts and opinions.

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I recognized some of the "old" wrestlers discussed on this thread -- so I thought I'd chime in here.

 

I think I've discussed this before -- But I think Doug Blubaugh was the strongest I've ever known.

 

Blubaugh was extraordinarily strong. I saw him toy with our heavyweight -- just using power -- That heavyweight pinned two-time national champion, Dave Porter -- and was very strong and skilled himself.

 

In fact, Doug could obviously toy with anyone on the team.

 

Doug worked out with George Radman the most in the practice room. George was so strong (and skilled) that he slaughtered a national champion in the NCAA finals his senior yera.

 

Doug easily overpowered him. One time Doug asked George what his weight was -- and Geaorge gave a smart-ass answer. The next thing you know George is up against the wall about two feet off the ground with Doug more or less holding him aloft with one hand. (George probably weighed 185 at the time.)

 

I believe beond any doubt that George could have been a two time NCAA champion -- but that year Doug beat George up so badly that poor George lost a lot of confidence.

 

I always told Doug not to use strength or skills agains me -- just each me. And Doug was great at that.

 

Uetake was another guy who never got credit for his strength. He was really strong in a weird kind of way. Hard to explain.

 

I think the strongest guy I wrestled was Al Karaghouli -- from OU.

 

Since I would be a candidate for the weakest wrestler of all time, I tried to outsmart the strong ones -- by not tying up -- and not spending too much time on the bottom, if you know what I mean.

 

But I do remember that when I made the mistake of tying up with Al it didn't feel good to me -- in fact, it felt a bit scary.

 

PS -- I've heard personal stories from people who wrestled Hodge. They said that after tying up with him (Hodge) he left bruises on their arms / biceps etc that didn/t go away for weeks.

 

Best -

 

DA

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I recognized some of the "old" wrestlers discussed on this thread -- so I thought I'd chime in here.

 

I think I've discussed this before -- But I think Doug Blubaugh was the strongest I've ever known.

 

Blubaugh was extraordinarily strong. I saw him toy with our heavyweight -- just using power -- That heavyweight pinned two-time national champion, Dave Porter -- and was very strong and skilled himself.

 

In fact, Doug could obviously toy with anyone on the team.

 

Doug worked out with George Radman the most in the practice room. George was so strong (and skilled) that he slaughtered a national champion in the NCAA finals his senior yera.

 

Doug easily overpowered him. One time Doug asked George what his weight was -- and Geaorge gave a smart-ass answer. The next thing you know George is up against the wall about two feet off the ground with Doug more or less holding him aloft with one hand. (George probably weighed 185 at the time.)

 

I believe beond any doubt that George could have been a two time NCAA champion -- but that year Doug beat George up so badly that poor George lost a lot of confidence.

 

I always told Doug not to use strength or skills agains me -- just each me. And Doug was great at that.

 

Uetake was another guy who never got credit for his strength. He was really strong in a weird kind of way. Hard to explain.

 

I think the strongest guy I wrestled was Al Karaghouli -- from OU.

 

Since I would be a candidate for the weakest wrestler of all time, I tried to outsmart the strong ones -- by not tying up -- and not spending too much time on the bottom, if you know what I mean.

 

But I do remember that when I made the mistake of tying up with Al it didn't feel good to me -- in fact, it felt a bit scary.

 

PS -- I've heard personal stories from people who wrestled Hodge. They said that after tying up with him (Hodge) he left bruises on their arms / biceps etc that didn/t go away for weeks.

 

Best -

 

DA

 

A good friend of mine wrestled for Michigan State 1968-1971, and he said that Blubaugh had the strength of a gorilla. Once he got a hold of you, he easily muscled you in to whatever predicament he pleased.

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I recognized some of the "old" wrestlers discussed on this thread -- so I thought I'd chime in here.

 

I think I've discussed this before -- But I think Doug Blubaugh was the strongest I've ever known.

 

Blubaugh was extraordinarily strong. I saw him toy with our heavyweight -- just using power -- That heavyweight pinned two-time national champion, Dave Porter -- and was very strong and skilled himself.

 

In fact, Doug could obviously toy with anyone on the team.

 

Doug worked out with George Radman the most in the practice room. George was so strong (and skilled) that he slaughtered a national champion in the NCAA finals his senior yera.

 

Doug easily overpowered him. One time Doug asked George what his weight was -- and George gave a smart-ass answer. The next thing you know George is up against the wall about two feet off the ground with Doug more or less holding him aloft with one hand. (George probably weighed 185 at the time.)

 

I believe beyond any doubt that George could have been a two time NCAA champion -- but that year Doug beat George up so badly that poor George lost a lot of confidence.

 

I always told Doug not to use strength or skills agains me -- just each me. And Doug was great at that.

 

Uetake was another guy who never got credit for his strength. He was really strong in a weird kind of way. Hard to explain.

 

I think the strongest guy I wrestled was Al Karaghouli -- from OU.

 

Since I would be a candidate for the weakest wrestler of all time, I tried to outsmart the strong ones -- by not tying up -- and not spending too much time on the bottom, if you know what I mean.

 

But I do remember that when I made the mistake of tying up with Al it didn't feel good to me -- in fact, it felt a bit scary.

 

PS -- I've heard personal stories from people who wrestled Hodge. They said that after tying up with him (Hodge) he left bruises on their arms / biceps etc that didn/t go away for weeks.

 

Best -

 

DA

 

A good friend of mine wrestled for Michigan State 1968-1971, and he said that Blubaugh had the strength of a gorilla. Once he got a hold of you, he easily muscled you in to whatever predicament he pleased.

 

You are not going to believe this -- but Doug never once muscled me. In fact, I muscled him. He had some unique ability to totally shut that down -- and just go at my level.

 

I told him I wanted him to do that as I had no desire to have him beat the crap out of me.

 

He was an amazing coach in that he could kick his level up to "man mountain bear" (he used to call it) -- or down to where he could work out with the 118 pounders. ]

 

Just an incredible coach and guy. I miss him.

 

Best --

 

DA

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I recognized some of the "old" wrestlers discussed on this thread -- so I thought I'd chime in here.

 

I think I've discussed this before -- But I think Doug Blubaugh was the strongest I've ever known.

 

Blubaugh was extraordinarily strong. I saw him toy with our heavyweight -- just using power -- That heavyweight pinned two-time national champion, Dave Porter -- and was very strong and skilled himself.

 

In fact, Doug could obviously toy with anyone on the team.

 

Doug worked out with George Radman the most in the practice room. George was so strong (and skilled) that he slaughtered a national champion in the NCAA finals his senior yera.

 

Doug easily overpowered him. One time Doug asked George what his weight was -- and Geaorge gave a smart-ass answer. The next thing you know George is up against the wall about two feet off the ground with Doug more or less holding him aloft with one hand. (George probably weighed 185 at the time.)

 

I believe beond any doubt that George could have been a two time NCAA champion -- but that year Doug beat George up so badly that poor George lost a lot of confidence.

 

I always told Doug not to use strength or skills agains me -- just each me. And Doug was great at that.

 

Uetake was another guy who never got credit for his strength. He was really strong in a weird kind of way. Hard to explain.

 

I think the strongest guy I wrestled was Al Karaghouli -- from OU.

 

Since I would be a candidate for the weakest wrestler of all time, I tried to outsmart the strong ones -- by not tying up -- and not spending too much time on the bottom, if you know what I mean.

 

But I do remember that when I made the mistake of tying up with Al it didn't feel good to me -- in fact, it felt a bit scary.

 

PS -- I've heard personal stories from people who wrestled Hodge. They said that after tying up with him (Hodge) he left bruises on their arms / biceps etc that didn/t go away for weeks.

 

Best -

 

DA

 

 

Good stuff Dale,

 

You always seem to make it really mean something, yet easy to understand. And....as a 2 Xer, you do have credentials.

 

I recall that Radman was the type of wrestler who could turn it on and off. Yeah, in the finals he must have racked up 20 points vs his finals opponent (the year of your first NCAA title)?

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Today, as I was waiting for a haircut, picked the Oklahoma Gazette the weekly free newspaper. The Oklahoma our big newspaper covered the Oklahoma Senate passing a resolution to support wrestling in the Olympics in 2020. John Smith was there wearing his two Olympic gold medals, Wayne Wells his gold, Danny Hodge is silver, Lee Roy Smith Jr. and a Indian representative who had wrestled in college.

 

In the Gazette it said before they adjourned one of the senators asked Danny Hodge to squeeze an apple. There is a picture of the juice pouring out of the bottom over a trash can. That is what happens when it is a ripe apple, the ones that are a little green get crushed. The article had Danny being 86, he actually turns 81 this month.

 

I knew George Radman had to be tough to beat Len Kauffman for the All-Service championship. Len got his revenge at the AAU nationals. Unlike Denny getting orders for Special Services, Len Kauffman was a flight instructor who usually flew with a student pilot in the morning then worked out with me in the afternoon. I was teaching academics for 4 hours in the morning. Once Len got to just workout for a month, I don't think I'd wanted on the mat with him.

 

Doug used to visit with me at the Perry Tournament, I miss seeing him at different events. Port Robertson hired Doug as an assistant when Port had to take back over the OU team when Tommy Evans got called back to active duty because of the Berlin Wall crisis. Doug said Roderick didn't give him the time of day when he got back, Port couldn't get him in the room fast enough. Port was trying to recruit Doug, his older brother Jack had wrestled for Port. Port went to visit the farm, and Doug's father said he'd appreciate it if Port wouldn't keep pressuring him. Port agreed on one condition that Doug's father tell him OU had a full scholarship for him. Port coached Doug in the 1960 Olympics. Port said he didn't find out until Doug was his assistant in 1962 that Doug's father hadn't told him of his scholarship offer. Port said he didn't consider Doug one of the "then" meaning OSU. When Tommy Evans retired Port made 3 recommendations for coaches to succeed Tommy; Stan Abel, Doug Blubaugh, and Bill Lam.

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Man OD....you continue to make my point with your comments, both on probably why you didn't get your PhD and how ridiculous your opinion is on this matter and holds no water. First you can't let your brain address the fact that you are trying to compare apples to oranges because you just happen to know how the current Olympic training center athletes training regiment, yet you have a clue what the training regiment was 50 years ago. And you can't use critical thinking and an analytical thought process to try and figure out a way to in fact compare today's athletes with those of 50+ years ago. You instead use one piece of evidence (and stuff you read out of a text book) to make a broad assumption and thus come to your opinion.

 

Finally, as far as what it takes to get a PhD....getting your PhD is actually probably much more conducive to what you claim your schedule to be seeing as research can be done at anytime of the day, whereas course work is usually scheduled at specific times. But obtaining a master’s in Health Science is it....good for you! Care to share any more things about yourself on here to show how smart and great you are?? I find it humorous when people feel they have to share their resume in order to get people to see how "smart" they are. Maybe prove it by what you post and write on here?? Taking tests and being able to remember what is in a book does not make one a scholar.

 

Funny thing is OD…..you MAY be correct about what you have written about Hodge….problem is, and you would have learned this if you stayed in school and learned to THINK instead of MEMORIZE, that you can change a lot of opinions and are able to make a more significant impact on people and their opinions if you are able to present your thoughts and opinions, as well as facts, in a logical and appropriate manner. So at the end of the day, you are getting exactly what you deserve in terms of your posts and opinions.

 

I am not too worried that people are attacking me on a personal level. I am a big boy, and anyone who knows who I am understands I am not some dullard who is using a highschool education and scholastic wrestling experience to add to the forum. I will ask again: Since I am unable in your opinion to produce anything logical or appropriate on the subject, why dont you shed some light on why Hodge was the strongest of all time? Or, you can dick tuck again and post your thoughts on why I am a drop out without a PhD.

 

Denny and Big Apple, these stories are awesome. I dont most of these are recorded anywhere in print or digitally so keep em' coming.

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