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GockeS

Cutting Weight!

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Wrestlers have been villified and villify each other about the weight loss issue.

 

In the May 13, sports Illustrated, they seem to deify Gian Villante in Leading off, for losing 17 pounds in a week.

 

There goes that argument?

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It's ok when you're an adult and fighter, but not ok when you're a high school athlete. There really is never backlash about weight cutting for intl. wrestling (once again in this case done by adults). The issue with the college weight cutting stemmed from the deaths, and I think most of us agree the changes have been a good thing.

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"OK" is a relative term. Excessive weight loss on an otherwise fit and healthy body is not okay from a health stand point - it just isn't a good thing - period. The issue with the situation/age of the person losing the weight may have moral overtones if that kind of weight loss is condoned, or even encouraged, by an adult supervising a younger kid.

 

But you are right, little moral judgement is passed on the extreme losses of weight international wrestlers engage in. But maybe that is yet another reason for wrestling's general lack of support by the broader public; issues like excessive weight loss stand in the shadows; it's one of our dirty little secrets that we hide from the outside world thinking that they don't know about it - but they do. It's a stereotype of the sport and it doesn't matter that the practice is really only truly rampant at the international level (I personally think a lot of guys still cut too much weight at all levels) - the whole sport is associated with the practice.

 

And we wonder why the broader public doesn't embrace our sport... :roll:

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so based on that logic we can safely assume that MMA is going down the tubes

 

Oh puhlleeeeez. MMA has bigger health issues to be concerned about than excessive weight cutting. Wait for a couple of years till its former competitors are walking around half brain dead and it will suffer the same ignoble fate as boxing.

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so based on that logic we can safely assume that MMA is going down the tubes

 

Oh puhlleeeeez. MMA has bigger health issues to be concerned about than excessive weight cutting. Wait for a couple of years till its former competitors are walking around half brain dead and it will suffer the same ignoble fate as boxing.

 

I am not quite sure I see your logic? Compared to boxing, I would think MMA would have FAR, FAR less possible brain issues. When you take into consideration the number of rounds per fight and sumissions being another way to end of fight versus KO, TKO........ than is seems much safer to me. Not to mention referees can jump in and stop a fight when the fighter is no longer defending themselves.

 

I know the gloves are far smaller in mma, but the number of punches the person takes over the course of a fight would seem far less than that of a boxer. We could debate about it all day, but guys who have been in wars in MMA, the thing that seems to get them is if they have been knocked out on several occasions is the glass jaw syndrome. They seem to get knocked out on just the touch of the chin, a la Chuck Liddell, Andre Arlovski even Wanderlei Silva. Until they start walking around half brain dead, I would continue to disagree. For example, if you speculate that Chuck Liddell is anything but highly intelligent, I encourage you to read his book. Of all the MMA biographies, his is one of the best and sheds some light on how intelligent he really is.

 

I would say the biggest concern right now is the gloves with uncovered fingers which leads to potential eye poking and injury.

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so based on that logic we can safely assume that MMA is going down the tubes

 

Oh puhlleeeeez. MMA has bigger health issues to be concerned about than excessive weight cutting. Wait for a couple of years till its former competitors are walking around half brain dead and it will suffer the same ignoble fate as boxing.

 

I am not quite sure I see your logic? Compared to boxing, I would think MMA would have FAR, FAR less possible brain issues. When you take into consideration the number of rounds per fight and sumissions being another way to end of fight versus KO, TKO........ than is seems much safer to me. Not to mention referees can jump in and stop a fight when the fighter is no longer defending themselves.

 

I know the gloves are far smaller in mma, but the number of punches the person takes over the course of a fight would seem far less than that of a boxer. We could debate about it all day, but guys who have been in wars in MMA, the thing that seems to get them is if they have been knocked out on several occasions is the glass jaw syndrome. They seem to get knocked out on just the touch of the chin, a la Chuck Liddell, Andre Arlovski even Wanderlei Silva. Until they start walking around half brain dead, I would continue to disagree. For example, if you speculate that Chuck Liddell is anything but highly intelligent, I encourage you to read his book. Of all the MMA biographies, his is one of the best and sheds some light on how intelligent he really is.

 

I would say the biggest concern right now is the gloves with uncovered fingers which leads to potential eye poking and injury.

 

 

This is what the guys in MMA are trying to promote. Less punches=less brain damage. In reality, one really big hit does much more damage than 10 small ones. You see it in the NFL with guys who get a bad concussion, are never the same, and then deal with brain issues down the line. Your skull has evolved to allow for the head to take some blows, but getting brutally KOd, which happens more in MMA than boxing, is going to cause brain damage.

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I am not quite sure I see your logic? Compared to boxing, I would think MMA would have FAR, FAR less possible brain issues. When you take into consideration the number of rounds per fight and sumissions being another way to end of fight versus KO, TKO........ than is seems much safer to me. Not to mention referees can jump in and stop a fight when the fighter is no longer defending themselves.

 

I know the gloves are far smaller in mma, but the number of punches the person takes over the course of a fight would seem far less than that of a boxer. We could debate about it all day, but guys who have been in wars in MMA, the thing that seems to get them is if they have been knocked out on several occasions is the glass jaw syndrome. They seem to get knocked out on just the touch of the chin, a la Chuck Liddell, Andre Arlovski even Wanderlei Silva. Until they start walking around half brain dead, I would continue to disagree. For example, if you speculate that Chuck Liddell is anything but highly intelligent, I encourage you to read his book. Of all the MMA biographies, his is one of the best and sheds some light on how intelligent he really is.

 

I would say the biggest concern right now is the gloves with uncovered fingers which leads to potential eye poking and injury.

 

Well, I am not the one who introduced MMA into this conversation; someone else did with regard to its comparability with wrestling related to its potential decline in being accepted by the main stream public. My point was that even aside from the weight loss issues (which I haven't heard about in MMA, but given that they have weight classes I have little doubt there are issues), MMA is a brutal sport that seeks to render your opponent senseless (or to submit) - just like boxing. I think to argue that one might be less likely to cause brain damage than the other is to miss the point - endeavoring to render another senseless using blows to the head is something that is likely to cause brain damage (not in everyone, but as a general rule).

 

Like boxing, MMA is a brutal sport and not for the faint of heart. I am not here to pass judgment on those who enjoy the sport but rather, merely state the obvious. Any sport (like boxing) that targets the head of another is a vicious sport. Boxing used to be an NCAA sanctioned sport. No more. While a couple of deaths in the ring are typically cited as the reason for the dropping of the sport, I would argue that the whole endeavor, e.g. weight loss, etc., helped to distance any possible fan base; the whole thing is tough to relate to - especially as part of the public education system. My point is that wrestling possesses many of these same parallels and that the broader perception of food deprivation as part of the sport doesn't encourage the sport's promotion by parents and school administrators.

 

So long as we (the broader wrestling family) view weight loss as an integral part of the sport and even honor the endeavor, we are creating distance between the sport and the broader public; which should be a wakeup call for us as we struggle to survive as a sport that is associated with the educational system. Lacking that association, wrestling will be relegated to a club sport status, much like boxing. That's where we are headed, and trying to rationalize weight loss or dismiss the negative associations does nothing to resolve the public perception of the problem.

 

For a variety of reasons, MMA will never be associated with the public school system, arguably the least of which are issues associated with weight loss. After watching a single MMA bout on TV, what mom would ever allow (much less encourage) their 13 year old son to join the local MMA team? The reasons against that outcome are legion. If a sport can't build a grass root system of support (among parents) then it will never flourish within our existing sports structure. That's not to say that the sport might not thrive at the professional level, but its feeder system will be severely inhibited, which can only spell P-R-O-B-L-E-M for its long term survival.

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