Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ocho

Cage Fighter (CF Athletics) vs Jake Herbert

Recommended Posts

A few thoughts I have:

 

Per the Asics suit. Mike tried to file a cease and desist order against Asics to stop them from running ads promoting Jordan Burroughs and the sport of wrestling leading up to the Olympics. First, personally, I would have met with Asics and not tried to prevent them from promoting the sport (and my athlete whose promotion would ultimately help me) but rather would have seeked damaged expose facto if I really had a claim and could not reach an agreement. Secondly, it was Jordan Burroughs that breached the contract, if what Mike claimed was accurate, and thus Mike should have filed a claim against his athlete.

 

However, as we all now see: Jordan Burroughs is promoting his new Asics shoes so it is pretty clear Asics and Jordan were not in the wrong. If the cease and desist were awarded, how much damage would have been done to Burroughs and the sport of wrestling without Asics promotional dollars? (The suit said Asics paid $150,000 for that ad campaign. Did any other person or company promote Olympic Wrestling?)

 

I find it troubling that someone who has built so many successful ventures (which he must have done, based on the various dollar amounts and various companies cited in court filings) still seems to have what I can only describe as inept legal advisors. If he is paying money for people to write his contracts and he keeps, time and time again, not having the contracts represent his understanding and intentions then he needs to pay for a new attorney that can best represent his position.

 

However, I doubt someone who has spent so much time in court, both as a plaintiff and defendant, does not find value in adequate counsel. And because of that, I have to think he must often seek to change the terms of his contracts when he realized the values he put on them were not justifiable. It seems like he bids up the price for athletes contracts and then panics when he realizes he over paid (or his companies products and quality aren't leading to the repeat business expected.)

 

Mike is a loud mouth with a big ego--which he clearly has when he compares himself to Dana White. And though I don't care for White too much he did call up one of our ORTC wrestlers after being called out in a twitter argument and asked how he could help and promoted Save Olympic Wrestling--leading to an effort at a UFC event and does seem to be fairly honorable in his business dealings.

 

But I can write off the ego and his loud mouth as just Mike's personality, if this were a typical situation. The same for all the complaints about his companies service and product quality (every company has some issues). However, I start to see these as signs of how he operates all his business--public and private--when I look at it from a macro perspective.

 

I don't doubt he has an appreciation for wrestling and does support the sport (he cites donating money to the ORTC, which makes sense since it supports his alma mater). However, with all that said, I don't really believe CF to be a wrestling brand. I think his real focus is MMA and he uses it to bridge fans and expand the market for his line of products. I find it interesting that he keeps referring to sponsored athletes as receiving donations. And one of the big problems I have is when he says he supports wrestling and cites the MMA stars he has paid to promote for him. Henderson, Phil Davis, all of these guys are not wrestlers, they were wrestlers. He is not paying wrestlers he is paying MMA fighters. Giving them money and helping them in their careers does not help wrestling and I don't believe he would be doing it if he didn't think they would promote his product.

 

Additionally, though I agree when he says we need to promote individuals and invest in them, I see this as more of a front than his real conviction. His history of companies has shown that he simply tries to get aligned with licensing to sell his products. He made a lot of money selling officially licensed Ohio State football jerseys and other licensed goods. Every company he seems to be involved with is a licensing play. But also, he said his sponsorship of Herbert that required him to wear CF gear was a donation because he didn't sell shirts licensing Herbert's name. So that just confirms, for me, licensing is his real game.

 

Why would he care if there iss wrestling in the Olympics? Funding the Save Olympic Wrestling movement does nothing for him since he will just have his athletes continue to compete as they do in non-Olympic years (where Dake's contract is for). Though I think his real solution would be to change forums for his athletes. Surely others will provide forums for his athletes--Beat the Streets, Tour ACW, USA Wrestling--or as I believe is his ultimate goal in landing these athletes--MMA. I find it interesting that he signs two athletes (and maybe the only two wrestlers he has signed, I don't know) who will be at the same international weight. So what happens if there is no Olympics in 2020? What happens if Dake begins beating Burroughs? What happens if Burroughs continues to beat Dake? I think the answer is simple: Mike will be in their ear letting them know that the money could be greater in MMA and how he can't keep funding someone that isn't winning world titles consistency (or maybe he would word it by saying 'wrestle out of a wet paper bag'). So why should he support the wrestling infrastructure? Others will build the venues and he will partner with a few stars to sell his products. And if there is no venue for wrestling, he can get them into the octagon. After all, Burroughs contract is for All Mixed Martial Arts.

 

But worst case scenario, there is no licensing play in wrestling or MMA, he can always default on his commitments and move on to his next sport and brand. After all, it has served him well in the past!

 

(Sent via Mobile)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Cage Fighter actually using at least a portion of the profits from their "Save Olympic Wrestling" merchandise to specifically help save it? Not just giving it to wrestling related people or place but actually towards ways of saving the sport for the Olympics (even if you don't trust the main movement their are other methods and way to help further the cause). I do not know the answer of if some of the profits is going towards this effort, but unless I'm reading it wrong it seems like Herbert seems to sound as if it isn't providing much if anything to the actual Save Olympic Wrestling movement. In my view if a company going to sell an item that specifically talks about save something it would be appropriate to actually used a portion of the profits for trying to do that. If not the company is just carpetbagging on the plight of people for their own personal profits. I'm hoping I am just interpreting this discussion wrong, because if CF isn't doing anything to directly help Save Olympic Wrestling I have lost even more respect for this company. Which already isn't high right now considering the poor customer reputation as of late and recent internet flame attacks by its leader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We could talk about Disabato boasting that Dake's T's being the highest selling T they've had online.

 

It tells me that wrestling people are not phased by Disabato's recent outburst. Or that are not informed.

 

I hope Dake and his representatives are studied in the past lawsuit between Henderson and Disabato. Disabato sold Henderson T's then would not pay him, or disclose his financials that would tracked the number of T's his company sold in Henderson's name.

 

tick tock . . . . time will tell when this con man is uncovered . . . . . again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We could talk about Disabato boasting that Dake's T's being the highest selling T they've had online.

 

It tells me that wrestling people are not phased by Disabato's recent outburst. Or that are not informed.

 

Yeah I'd say the average wrestling fan and the parents of youth don't have the insight to know any better. It's not like this is making national press and even most of those people don't regularly follow their state websites during this point in the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was at the London Olympics and saw the Cage Fighter Athletics guy (Mike Disabato) during the 74kg finals...he was embarrassing. At one point in time he had his shirt off and was jumping a fence (granted it was after JB won in the finals)...the rest of the time he was yelling back and forth with some of the Russian wrestling fans...several of them were Olympians and most of them were irritated with him. As far as his business ethics I have no knowledge, but I can say that I was not proud of the way he represented the USA on that day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sat right behind the guy that was claiming to own Cage Fighter and was promoting JB at the London Olympics. If that was Mike Disabato and I am sure it was...he was an embarrassment! He was yelling back and forth with some Russian Olympians and the banter was obviously irritating them. After Burroughs won he took his shirt off, jumped a fence, and was trying to get JB to hold up a Cage Fighter shirt...JB gave him a disapproving look and waved him off. He was loud and arrogant. I was embarrassed by his behavior!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone think Herbert had an angle when asking the question?

 

Personally I think he did, which makes his actions kind of tainted/disingenuine.

 

It probably was a loaded question since he is sponsored by Cliff Keen who made a public donation but he didn't single out CageFighter when he asked it. I'm pretty sure DiSabato is the only owner of a company that went on an insult laden tirade agaisnt Herbert after he posted a seemingly innocuous tweet. DiSabato and CF seemed to think he was talking directly to them and basically went off the deep end. I didn't see Cradle Gear, Clinch Gear, Brute, Ironside Apparel, or any other companies freak out. Seems like CF has a chip on its shoulder (or is just run by a huge douche bag).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is Cage Fighter actually using at least a portion of the profits from their "Save Olympic Wrestling" merchandise to specifically help save it? Not just giving it to wrestling related people or place but actually towards ways of saving the sport for the Olympics (even if you don't trust the main movement their are other methods and way to help further the cause). I do not know the answer of if some of the profits is going towards this effort, but unless I'm reading it wrong it seems like Herbert seems to sound as if it isn't providing much if anything to the actual Save Olympic Wrestling movement. In my view if a company going to sell an item that specifically talks about save something it would be appropriate to actually used a portion of the profits for trying to do that. If not the company is just carpetbagging on the plight of people for their own personal profits. I'm hoping I am just interpreting this discussion wrong, because if CF isn't doing anything to directly help Save Olympic Wrestling I have lost even more respect for this company. Which already isn't high right now considering the poor customer reputation as of late and recent internet flame attacks by its leader.

 

Does anyone have the answer to this one. Other than the implication by Herbert I haven't heard anything on this point. I know family having a long connection to the ORTC, but I would say that support is more helping individuals and a specific club and not exactly helping push to keep the Wrestling in the Olympics like the shirts seems to promote. Also, this isn't just an extra attack on CF, I'd be disappointed in any company that promoted the Save Wrestling Gear but then didn't do anything with a portion of the profits to actively help save it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Does anyone have the answer to this one. Other than the implication by Herbert I haven't heard anything on this point. I know family having a long connection to the ORTC, but I would say that support is more helping individuals and a specific club and not exactly helping push to keep the Wrestling in the Olympics like the shirts seems to promote. Also, this isn't just an extra attack on CF, I'd be disappointed in any company that promoted the Save Wrestling Gear but then didn't do anything with a portion of the profits to actively help save it.

 

What portion of profits donated do you consider to be enough? If somebody sells $100,000 worth of shirts, is donating $1,000 enough? There's no way for us to really know what percentage of the "save wrestling" gear is actually being donated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What portion of profits donated do you consider to be enough? If somebody sells $100,000 worth of shirts, is donating $1,000 enough? There's no way for us to really know what percentage of the "save wrestling" gear is actually being donated.

 

I'm not advocating that all wrestling related companies should be donating to the effort, but do feel if you are selling a product that is specifically labeled for Saving Wrestling at the Olympics then I would hope a portion of the sales from it would actually go toward that focus. What the appropriate level is, I am not sure. I would say that companies with a larger overall profit margin and/or those of use wrestling as substantial part of their business would be in a position to give more, while smaller smaller companies with where less of their sales relies on wrestling wouldn't be held to as high of standards. However, if your selling that specific merchandise then I would think at least a percentage of those profits would end up attempting to help the cause more instead the issue being used just as a way to more profits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a long time lurker and watched the whole thing go down on Twitter. I think Mike could have picked a better forum, but I do know him personally and know this:

 

Mike's vision is 100% about building a brand around its athletes, and he pays his sponsored athletes well to participate in grass roots to global events.

 

Out of all the other athletic apparel companies listed, there isn't one that has paid sponsorship money to any of their athletes as does CF. The fact of the matter is, they're all beginning to do so now to keep up with CF. does anyone own a Danny Hodge tee or a Kenny Monday shoe?

 

Regardless of his Twitter tirade, he is successfully promoting and expanding a sport that we all love from a grass roots to global level. Someone mentioned he is promoting MMA more than wrestling - Kyle Dake, Jordan Burroughs, and Jordan Oliver are not MMA fighters - yet.

 

Simply put, MMA is the next and only logical step after completing an amateur wrestling career if you still wish to compete in a similar sport. Wrestling is a base of MMA, period. The insinuation reads to me as CF riding the backs of "former" wrestlers and current MMA fighters to success. The reality is this:

 

The UFC has created a popular, global brand based on its stars. The NFL does this, the NBA, MLB, golf. Do you think for a second wrestling hasn't been monetized since the 1st day of ASICS and Cliff-Keen being in business? The difference is that money didn't go back to the stars of our sport, it went straight into the pockets of those business owners. Mike is using MMA to cross new fans back over to wrestling. Who else is doing that? How do we get new lifeblood into this sport we love otherwise? Passing it down from generation to generation is great, but it won't show growth, it won't provide rapid expansion. Wrestling needs to GROW, not remain stagnant.

 

This current outrage is EXACTLY what is wrong with our sport today. People cry, "We do it for the love of the sport!" OK. I get it. But does ASICS or Cliff Keen or Cradle Gear or Brute do it for the love of the sport or are they doing it to sell apparel, gear, and shoes?

 

As long as wrestling fans and wrestlers continue to refuse recognizing the value of our sport it will continue to decline. I agree 100% with Mike's take on this fact: the old guard filled their pockets for 40+ years and look where we are - the IOC is removing wrestling, the NCAA tournament is on ESPN The Ocho, and the true stars of our sport are not household names outside of our sport. I watched one of Chuck Liddell's early fights in back in 88 or so, and nobody outside of the very small NHB circles knew who he was, now everyone does.

 

It's time for some revolutionary change my friends. I'd rather be an agent of positive change than a brainwashed zombie being led like a sheep to the slaughter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's an Ohio State Lantern article from the past:

 

http://www.thelantern.com/campus/fighti ... ZeGDKKcfTo

 

Here's Disabato, Burroughs and Palmer on flowrestling:

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/speaker/3389-Mike-Disabato

my god...that flo video is very telling. I guess Palmer and his "agents" made a smart move rejecting the proposed CF contract this tool's lawyer sent over....."the language was too broad". Burroughs just looks annoyed the whole time by this guy's shtick...bet he's sorry he ever got into bed with him.

 

This actually cracked me up...Disabato was annoying me in this video. The very genuine and upbeat Burroughs seemed very annoyed with him - that is saying something :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...