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JohnnyThompsonnum1

Best Technicians

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Now you know why I listed Wade Schalles and Randy Lewis as the best counter wrestling technicians. Lewboo said once he saw what Schalles was doing, he took to it like a duck does to water.

 

I used to say that I never wanted to miss a match where Wade Schalles, Randy Lewis, and Dave Schultz. You might see something you'd never seen before, and might not see again for awhile, and you would usually see a pin. If more people wrestled like they did, wrestling would be a whoie lot more popular in terms of drawing fans to meets.

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Randy Lewis, although obviously very good, looked sloppy and used similar movements to my junior high wrestlers.

 

Looks like your junior high guys are on the path to making multiple world and Olympic teams.

 

And making 3 NCAA final appearances, and while wrestling with a dislocated elbow, and having absolutely no use of one arm, STILL making All American status. I wish I had been as good as a "junior high guy" while I was in high school.

 

So both of y'all would consider this a prime example of a technical proficient match?

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Now you know why I listed Wade Schalles and Randy Lewis as the best counter wrestling technicians. Lewboo said once he saw what Schalles was doing, he took to it like a duck does to water.

 

I used to say that I never wanted to miss a match where Wade Schalles, Randy Lewis, and Dave Schultz. You might see something you'd never seen before, and might not see again for awhile, and you would usually see a pin. If more people wrestled like they did, wrestling would be a whoie lot more popular in terms of drawing fans to meets.

 

We have a guy right now who's better than all three of them. (Burroughs.)

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I didn't say Schalles, Lewis, and D. Schultz were better than anyone. I said they were exciting to watch. Lee Kemp was dominant like Burroughs is today, but in terms of excitement they don't match up. Dave used to say Lee would blow someone out 1-0 or 2-0, he dominated the match in freestyle, but wouldn't score many offensive points. Pay attention to what is written before making a comment that isn't relevant.

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So both of y'all would consider this a prime example of a technical proficient match?

 

Randy Lewis was a great technician. He got out of position on occasion, but attacked from every position, including when his opponent was standing behind him with his hands locked. Also, it's obvious that he was wrestling a highly skilled opponent (who ended up medalling multiple times over the next two Olympic cycles).

 

You don't do what Randy did without knowing what you're doing.

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Randy knew and did things people watching can't see. AND he took risks, Randy would give up three to get four each and every time. I can't remember the exact number but I am going to say around thirty five.... Randy beat and mostly pinned over thirty five world or olympic medalists in his wrestling career.

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Now you know why I listed Wade Schalles and Randy Lewis as the best counter wrestling technicians. Lewboo said once he saw what Schalles was doing, he took to it like a duck does to water.

 

I used to say that I never wanted to miss a match where Wade Schalles, Randy Lewis, and Dave Schultz. You might see something you'd never seen before, and might not see again for awhile, and you would usually see a pin. If more people wrestled like they did, wrestling would be a whoie lot more popular in terms of drawing fans to meets.

 

We have a guy right now who's better than all three of them. (Burroughs.)

 

Agreed, but are we talking about 1 aspect of wrestling or being a well rounded technician?

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Rick Sanders was a great technician, but Fred Fozzard a fellow Oregonian was the first world champ for the US.

They both won worlds in 1969.

 

BigApple -- check your private messages. I just sent you one. They're in the toolbar toward the top of the page.

 

 

Sanders, or "the little hippie coach" as he would sometimes be called at Russ Houk's Camp, was assumed to be the first US World Champ because he was in a lighter weight class than Fozzard and would have normally wrestled before the heavier Fozzard. They both won at the time (Tourney/date); but Fozzard actually wrestled and won mins or hours before Sanders ??? this is a question

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I don't know that answer. I do know that Ben Peterson won his gold in 1972 before Dan Gable and Wayne Wells win theirs. Ben didn't have a bye in the 1st or 2nd round of the round robin. I am assuming that be the case with Sanders and Fozzard, as I've read Fred was the first world champ for the US.

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Fozzard was my college coach. I talked to him all the time after practice or while getting warmed up about his career. Sanders won before Fozzard did that day. Fozz told me that two european wrestlers set up a match for money in the semis but got caught, and both got DQ'd. Also, all of this stuff about him winning with 1 arm was BS. Both of his arms were strong. One was smaller and he had to do a bunch of rehab, but he could use it just fine. Fred had awesome technique on his firemans carry. He also told me he thought guys of his generation would get killed by guys of this generation, because full time training was unheard of at that time and most guys had to pay the bills, so training all year was out. He said he wrestled the 3 months of the college season, took a long break, then did a 3 week training camp with the team before worlds and that was it. Freddy is one of the best story tellers simply because you know he doesnt throw in any extra bullshi!t. What he says is how it happened.

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Fozzard was my college coach. I talked to him all the time after practice or while getting warmed up about his career. Sanders won before Fozzard did that day. Fozz told me that two european wrestlers set up a match for money in the semis but got caught, and both got DQ'd. Also, all of this stuff about him winning with 1 arm was BS. Both of his arms were strong. One was smaller and he had to do a bunch of rehab, but he could use it just fine. Fred had awesome technique on his firemans carry. He also told me he thought guys of his generation would get killed by guys of this generation, because full time training was unheard of at that time and most guys had to pay the bills, so training all year was out. He said he wrestled the 3 months of the college season, took a long break, then did a 3 week training camp with the team before worlds and that was it. Freddy is one of the best story tellers simply because you know he doesnt throw in any extra bullshi!t. What he says is how it happened.

 

Thank you...research said that Fozz overcame polio and told about the arm, BUT photos did not show anything out of normal...both are credited for being the first ,this is news to me. Sanders was awesome and by far the most popular coach/character at Russ Houk's Camp back in early August 1972; not sure where I got my mis-information.

http://www.examiner.com/article/okla-st ... ll-of-fame

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why couldn't our greats win the world's before the relatively late date of 1972? I thought we had Olympic gold medalists well before 72... or are we only speaking of specifically the Worlds tournament in a non Olympic year? And if that's the case did our top guys just not ever enter this tournament (if it existed)?

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why couldn't our greats win the world's before the relatively late date of 1972? I thought we had Olympic gold medalists well before 72... or are we only speaking of specifically the Worlds tournament in a non Olympic year? And if that's the case did our top guys just not ever enter this tournament (if it existed)?

 

The first worlds were in 1951. They were held again in 54, 57, and 59, and then every non-Olympic year starting in 61. We have a longstanding history of doing well at the Olympics, dating back to 1904 when won every single freestyle gold medal. We must not have sent guys to worlds until the mid 60s or late 60s.

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I believe 1961 was the first time that the USA sent wrestlers to world championships.

We really didn't get serious about it until the mid 1960s. Oregon did some early exchange tours with Japan.

 

First Len Kauffman in the 1966 Worlds in Toledo where he tied for 3rd losing the Bronze because he weighed more at the end of the match. Rick Sanders and Fred Fozzard came along shortly thereafter.

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why couldn't our greats win the world's before the relatively late date of 1972? I thought we had Olympic gold medalists well before 72... or are we only speaking of specifically the Worlds tournament in a non Olympic year? And if that's the case did our top guys just not ever enter this tournament (if it existed)?

 

Another factor MIGHT be that there was no Olympic Training Center before that timeframe and our wrestlers were true amatures with no $upport; Sanders, and several others, were paid as coachs at Russ Houk's camp where he also trained prior to the 72 Olympics. Russ Houk was the team manager of the 72 team. As a camper in August 72 I actually got to go takedowns with Sanders in a round robin fashion with several other campers who were chosen by Rick, I was going into my senior year of High school. A month or so later I watched him on tv winning a medal in awesome style, I stayed up until 3 AM EDT just to watch him.

 

Sorry if I helped change the subject of this thread

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why couldn't our greats win the world's before the relatively late date of 1972? I thought we had Olympic gold medalists well before 72... or are we only speaking of specifically the Worlds tournament in a non Olympic year? And if that's the case did our top guys just not ever enter this tournament (if it existed)?

 

Another factor MIGHT be that there was no Olympic Training Center before that timeframe and our wrestlers were true amatures with no $upport; Sanders, and several others, were paid as coachs at Russ Houk's camp where he also trained prior to the 72 Olympics. Russ Houk was the team manager of the 72 team. As a camper in August 72 I actually got to go takedowns with Sanders in a round robin fashion with several other campers who were chosen by Rick, I was going into my senior year of High school. A month or so later I watched him on tv winning a medal in awesome style, I stayed up until 3 AM EDT just to watch him.

 

Sorry if I helped change the subject of this thread

 

Ah, no way. I can never hear enough stories about Rick Sanders.

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Randy knew and did things people watching can't see. AND he took risks, Randy would give up three to get four each and every time. I can't remember the exact number but I am going to say around thirty five.... Randy beat and mostly pinned over thirty five world or olympic medalists in his wrestling career.

 

 

I think he beat around 30 NCAA Champions also! A number of years ago Wrestling USA magazine had those stats in their Profile of a Champion column on him.....if I need to, I'll find it!!! He was also voted the most exciting wrestler of either the 70's or 80's by Amateur Wrestling News.

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Lewis wrestled 24 NCAA champs, defeating 21 of them at one time or another, 16 after they were NCAA Champs. He beat 6 of them during his college career in college matches. No telling of anyone else who has beaten more NCAA champs in his career. The three NCAA champs whom he DID NOT beat were Nate Carr, Brian Dolph, and Eddie Urbano. He was 0-2 against Nate Carr and 0-1 against Dolph and Urbano ( up a weight from his last Olympic berth). He pinned 8 NCAA champs and won by major or better 13 times against NCAA Champs. Obviously many of these matches were in freestyle. At one time or other, he scored back points on every NCAA Champ the Randy ever wrestled, except for John Azevedo, whom he defeated 20-14 in, at the time- the highest scoring match in NCAA finals history. His career record against NCAA Champions is 59-26-1. Here is a list of champions defeated by Lewis and his record against them: Jim Gibbons 4-2, Joe Gibbons 1-0, John Smith 1-3, Leroy Smith 4-5, Tom Brands 2-0, Jesse Reyes 2-0, Jim Jordan 6-0, Darryl Burley 4-1-1, CD Mock 3-0, John Azevedo 1-0, Mike Land 5-5, Mike Frick 1-0, Nick Gallo 3-0, Dan Cuestas 2-0, Andre Metzger 2-5, Scott Turner 1-0, Clar Anderson 2-0, Terry Steiner 2-0, Jack Reinwand 3-0, Ken Mallory 1-0, Matt Demaray 1-1.

 

Not too shabby. I'd say that a winning percentage of 69 % + over NCAA champions is more than considerable.

 

His international wins are just as impressive.

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^^I guess if Mr A is a one-time NCAA champ, winning the NCAA's as a senior, then everyone who beat Mr A (when he was a frosh, soph, etc.) can say he beat an NCAA champ (that is, future champ). I suppose it might be workable to count beating an NCAA champ, if you beat him the year he wins the NCAA's or thereafter.

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