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UWW asks Dan Sweeney to stop tweeting out clips of their matches

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

UWW could not make money if they wanted to.  There are no investors, shareholders, etc. That's why this is so illogical.  

Well in this case, its just stupid to restrict access. Im guessing they feel a contractual obligation because of the deal with flo?

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2 minutes ago, dman115 said:

Are you familiar with how non-profits work??  It isn't as simple as saying "they could not make money if they wanted to"...that is utterly false.  They need to make money to pay for everything they do...including salaries.  Who pays for the travel to all the events?  Who pays for the camera's?  Who pays for the marketing?  Etc....

According to the UWW financials posted, the answer is, 'the IOC', mostly.

 

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Absolutely they can generate revenue, but there are no earnings or profit.  There is no reason to try to limit people building off of their content to help teach technique, as there are no long term negative consequences to them. This is not impacting their broadcast rights at all.  They literally have a monopoly on the sport and can't profit from it.  There is also no benefit from demanding credit-UWW isn't going anywhere and doesn't need the traffic as a journalistic entity would.  In fact, limiting those who actually can learn the sport hurts the long term prospects of UWW (since UWW literally is the sport of wrestling around the world).  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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7 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Absolutely they can generate revenue, but there are no earnings or profit.  There is no reason to try to limit people building off of their content to help teach technique, as there are no long term negative consequences to them. This is not impacting their broadcast rights at all.  They literally have a monopoly on the sport and can't profit from it.  There is also no benefit from demanding credit-UWW isn't going anywhere and doesn't need the traffic as a journalistic entity would.  In fact, limiting those who actually can learn the sport hurts the long term prospects of UWW.  

What hurts the long term prospects of the UWW and the sport of wrestling is when the UWW ceases to exist because they didn't make any money because they offered everything for "free" and thus couldn't pay for anything, or any staff.

There is absolutely nothing wrong for them to require credit for the work they did that someone else stole and is making money off of.  Lucky the dude didn't get sued!

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5 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Well in this case, its just stupid to restrict access. Im guessing they feel a contractual obligation because of the deal with flo?

to my knowledge, Flo had nothing to do with this. but UWW may still feel an obligation to their rights holders (including Flo, but there are several others worldwide) to regulate the use of their content, just as NBC/IOC, FOX/BTN and ESPN/NCAA does with their content. you have to pay quite a bit of amounts of money to officially license highlight clips of Olympic or NCAA wrestling videos. more than you'd probably think!

Hopefully a deal can be worked out with Dan where he can simply credit and tag UWW and it won't cost him anything out of pocket because I agree with everyone on this board, his videos are excellent and are an overall benefit to the sport!

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3 minutes ago, dman115 said:

What hurts the long term prospects of the UWW and the sport of wrestling is when the UWW ceases to exist because they didn't make any money because they offered everything for "free" and thus couldn't pay for anything, or any staff.

Obviously, that needs to be considered, but without looking at their books, we dont know. To you, is it even worth considering the opportunity costs?

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7 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Obviously, that needs to be considered, but without looking at their books, we dont know. To you, is it even worth considering the opportunity costs?

Absolutely...so just give UWW credit in his clips...problem solved.  But nothing is or can be simply "free".

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52 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:


1. Reward the outfit that’s been making (small) revenue by taking content with a job? Outside the box, but happens with hackers and cyber security commonly.
2. Great, then that content should then be posted on UWWs channel.
3. or DPS can license the videos and then be free to monetize.

This idea that Sweeney should be treated like he’s taking something of value from UWW seems insane to me. 

First, I don’t think there is any substitute for live competitions, and he is not streaming pirated live events. He is simply sharing clips after the fact — which is what happens all the time with NBA footage (and probably footage from other leagues as well).

Second, Sweeney’s clips introduce people to athletes, keep people updated, and provide informative and entertaining content. His clips also lend freestyle and Greco legitimacy to a wider audience. If anything, this should create higher demand for UWW’s product. As far as I can tell, Sweeney’s content amounts to free and effective advertising. 

Edited by Katie

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My thoughts on this:
 

  1. Dan probably should have worked out a deal with UWW once he started to monetize his account. 
  2. Once UWW flagged it, it should not have taken a social media post from Jason Bryant to get UWW to answer his emails. 
  3. I still think its bullsh*t that the only country in the world that is required to pay to stream UWW events is the USA. 

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1 hour ago, dman115 said:

Man this is absolutely false thinking, ie., to think everything should remain "free".  Where do you think the stuff for wrestling comes from?  Do you think camera's are free?  Do you think editing software is free?  Do you think web design is free?  Do you think people's time is "free"?  Or do those things not matter??  And if you think all these things should just be "free", get your arses out there and create it for free than...the rest of us will wait to see how the most perfect wrestling product will be produced by you...for "free"....and we will wait...

You're missing the point. Nobody is saying "free Sweeney" because things should be free.

Sweeney is helping UWW further its mission. He is repackaging UWW content in a completely original way that gets viewed, with great interest, by an audience that UWW would not otherwise reach (martial arts community at large). He also stimulates more interest within the existing wrestling fan base. Look at some of his followers: elite active athletes, head coaches, etc. Broader interest than the wrestling fan base and more interest from the existing fan base. Why is that bad?

If the UWW wants brand attribution, fine. But any attempt to shut the guy down is tone deaf. Whether the guy is making a few bucks or not is irrelevant. He is not hurting UWW or wrestling in any way. He is only helping. 

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7 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

You're missing the point. Nobody is saying "free Sweeney" because things should be free.

Sweeney is helping UWW further its mission. He is repackaging UWW content in a completely original way that gets viewed, with great interest, by an audience that UWW would not otherwise reach (martial arts community at large). He also stimulates more interest within the existing wrestling fan base. Look at some of his followers: elite active athletes, head coaches, etc. Broader interest than the wrestling fan base and more interest from the existing fan base. Why is that bad?

If the UWW wants brand attribution, fine. But any attempt to shut the guy down is tone deaf. Whether the guy is making a few bucks or not is irrelevant. He is not hurting UWW or wrestling in any way. He is only helping. 

Exactly.  It's even comical to me that UWW cares about brand recognition on a small youtube channel.  They literally control the sport of wrestling at the level that matters.  They have the twitter account @wrestling. They are the sport of wrestling. They are a non profit entity that gains nothing from shutting down somebody getting 3-5K views per youtube video. Flo has even posted here saying this isn't them. Flo trying to shut down Willie was dirty, but at least it made sense from a shortsighted business perspective (slowing down a competitor at the expense of alienating a number of fans)-rightfully they don't see a guy making technique videos as a problem to their broadcast rights, which is great.  

I'm speculating/extrapolating a bit here.  But since it wasn't Flo who requested this, it seems to me like people who work for UWW simply want to exert power for no reason other than to do so-"We are going to shut you down because we legally can."   You often see this in many poorly run organizations/entities-especially those that have no/limited pressure from competitors-where the desire of the individuals who work there for control supercedes the overall goal of the organization.  

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1 hour ago, wrestlingphish said:

My thoughts on this:
I still think its bullsh*t that the only country in the world that is required to pay to stream UWW events is the USA. 

This has been debunked numerous times. Not sure what it's going to take for the truth to actually prevail. 

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10 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

This has been debunked numerous times. Not sure what it's going to take for the truth to actually prevail. 

What other countries have to pay for access to UWW streams?

Additionally, in the UWW financials, there were no other line items for media rights outside of the US.

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1 hour ago, wrestlingphish said:

 

I still think its bullsh*t that the only country in the world that is required to pay to stream UWW events is the USA. 

Pro Tip: Get a VPN and set it to almost any country that isn't the USA and enjoy a free UWW stream.

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I can't speak on UWW's financials as I've yet to review them but India definitely has a deal for streaming rights within India. I think they've been putting them on youtube for free (but geoblocked). UWW would very much like to sell media rights to the world championship to every country on Earth. All those media partners would then be able to put that stream behind a paywall if they wanted. the fact that they don't is not ideal, it means UWW is missing out on a lot of revenue that most other sports get from their media rights. 

I think a lot of people are also under the assumption that if FloSports no longer had the USAW or UWW media rights that whoever did instead would not also put the streams behind a paywall. I find that scenario extremely unlikely.

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32 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

I can't speak on UWW's financials as I've yet to review them but India definitely has a deal for streaming rights within India. I think they've been putting them on youtube for free (but geoblocked). UWW would very much like to sell media rights to the world championship to every country on Earth. All those media partners would then be able to put that stream behind a paywall if they wanted. the fact that they don't is not ideal, it means UWW is missing out on a lot of revenue that most other sports get from their media rights. 

I think a lot of people are also under the assumption that if FloSports no longer had the USAW or UWW media rights that whoever did instead would not also put the streams behind a paywall. I find that scenario extremely unlikely.


Flo requires consumers to purchase an annual subscription as a condition of viewing the UWW’s world championship feed.  And such an arrangement is completely new.

Before Flo bought the rights to UWW’s world championship feed, Track did.  And Track simply charged for the event.

And before Track, watching the event was absolutely free.  In fact it’s apparently still free in every other country (with the alleged exception of India).

Of course, Flo does not broadcast the NCAA championships — the other main event for American wrestling fans.  For that you need ESPN.

Those are the facts as I understand them. 

Edited by Katie

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It streamed free in 2013, it wasn’t streamed well in 2014 due to internet issues in Tashkent. it was ESPN3 in 2015. 2013 is the outlier for the “free” folks. Again, it’s not like there were years of free content suddenly put behind a paywall. UWW didn’t have much of an online presence prior to 2013, save its archived stuff on Dartfish. Framing this as Track/Flo took something free and then just put it behind a paywall for greed purposes isn’t accurate.

 

WCSN streamed it for PPV going back as far as 2006. No stream in 2007 or 2009-2011, events I was on site for. Repeating half truths won’t make them true.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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23 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

It streamed free in 2013, it wasn’t streamed well in 2014 due to internet issues in Tashkent. it was ESPN3 in 2015. 2013 is the outlier for the “free” folks. Again, it’s not like there were years of free content suddenly put behind a paywall. UWW didn’t have much of an online presence prior to 2013, save its archived stuff on Dartfish. Framing this as Track/Flo took something free and then just put it behind a paywall for greed purposes isn’t accurate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

To be fair to Flo, they apparently were not involved in this Sweeney debacle.  

Edited by Katie

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