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Logan Stieber vs Kendrick Maple

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I think Steiber wins with about the same ease as he did over Ramos. As for best wrestler in College that is debatable. Look what DT and Ruth have done to the competition outside of Dake.

 

Against the most elite competition, Taylor or Ruth has not impressed like Stieber has. I think that gives Stieber the clear edge over both guys. Taylor had a great showing at U.S. nationals, so he may be able to sway me if he can do the same at the trials with all the top guys there. As of this moment, Ruth is left without an argument for that title. You must consider all competition.

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Saying Ruth isn't in the conversation is laughable. We are talking folkstyle, right, or are we mixing in Freestyle (with weight allowance) to get the results we want? Ed has faced, and defeated, more quality college competition then anyone coming back next season. Also, for someone who lectures that we must consider all competition, you sure did forget about Stieber's performance at the U.S. Open in a hurry.

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Saying Ruth isn't in the conversation is laughable. We are talking folkstyle, right, or are we mixing in Freestyle (with weight allowance) to get the results we want? Ed has faced, and defeated, more quality college competition then anyone coming back next season. Also, for someone who lectures that we must consider all competition, you sure did forget about the U.S. Open last month.

 

We're talking about all competition, which includes freestyle. I did not forget the U.S. open, I actually made mention of it in my post!

 

Ed has not impressed the way Logan has against the very best. Do you disagree? If we go down a level or two and consider college competition, it can still be argued that Ed hasn't been as impressive as Stieber, although that could be debated. Overall, how can Ruth be ahead of Stieber? What's the argument?

 

Edit: *Called the U.S. Open, U.S. nationals.*

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I edited my post to be more specific since your trying to get around the fact that you didn't mention Stieber's results at the U.S. Open once despite lecturing us on how we need to use all competition.

 

And now on to the straw argument. I took issue with the fact you said Ed shouldn't even be considered in the conversation, but now you are trying to frame the argument as if I said Ruth was clearly better. Those type of discussions are pointless and I don't get involved in them.

 

Finally, using a victory in an exhibition with a 4lb allowance can not be viewed in the same light as a win in an international tournament . Does Stieber beat Sat wrestling in an open in Russia at scratch weight?

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I edited my post to be more specific since your trying to get around the fact that you didn't mention Stieber's results at the U.S. Open once despite lecturing us on how we need to use all competition.

 

And now on to the straw argument. I took issue with the fact you said Ed shouldn't even be considered, but now you are trying to frame the argument as if I said Ruth was clearly better. Those type of discussions are pointless and I don't get involved in them.

 

Finally, using a victory in an exhibition with a 4lb allowance can not be viewed in the same light as a win in an international tournament . Again, take a look at his U.S. Open results at scratch weight.

 

Why do you think I'm not considering the U.S. Open? I used the U.S. Open for Taylor, why not Stieber? No, I'm not trying to frame the argument like you said Ed was better. I'm merely asking, if Ed's clearly in the argument for best college wrestler, what's the argument? I'd like to hear it. Surely there must be an argument in your opinion, if you take issue with Ed not being considered.

 

You do have a good point about the exhibition. Actually, a better point than many would probably be willing to acknowledge. I have to give you that. Now that I think more about it, I'm not quite sure how I should view Stieber's win over Sat given the circumstances.

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I don't have the time or inclination to go over Ed Ruth's resume although I will note that he majored a two time finalist, 3x AA in the finals this past March while Logan got put on his back by a first time finalist, 2x AA.

 

For more info see D1 College Wrestling.... or you can just ask Scribe if Ed Ruth has any more quality wins.

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I don't have the time or inclination to go over Ed Ruth's resume although I will note that he majored a two time finalist, 3x AA in the finals this past March while Logan got put on his back by a first time finalist, 2x AA.

 

For more info see Div I Wrestling.... or you can just ask Scribe if Ed Ruth has any more quality wins.

 

Would you say that based on that one win that Ruth has an agrument over Stieber? Shouldn't we mention that Stieber has wrestled Ramos about 4-5 times now? I believe Ruth's other win(s) over Hamlin were by 2 points.

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Finally, using a victory in an exhibition with a 4lb allowance can not be viewed in the same light as a win in an international tournament . Does Stieber beat Sat wrestling in an open in Russia at scratch weight?

 

While this may be true, SAT throttled Scott under the same circumstances. Using the "exhibition" explanation would be appropriate if SAT continued his poor performance in his other matches. As well, would you apply that "exhibition" tag to Coleman Scott's loss? Do you think he wasnt giving it his all?

 

w.s

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It just kills me how some wrestling "fans" are able to belittle and rationalize away a big win for someone. :roll: The kids wins two NCAA titles in two tries, wins silver in the Jr. Worlds, just gets done beating the world ranked No. 1 easily, and that isn't good enough....wow!! :roll:

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I have given props to Kendric Maple long before the made a name for himself. He is a special kid, graduated with a 4.0 gpa this year, he'll be in graduate school while competing next year. He is a very elite athlete.

 

I was talking to Logan and Hunter prior to the tournament. I've known Logan since he was a senior in HS. This was my first time to meet Hunter. Hunter is a good athlete, Kendric is an elite athlete.

 

I really believe that Logan Stieber will win the 132.5 pound spot in for the 2016 Olympics and Kendric the 145.5 pounds. I think Maple is bigger, longer, and even a better athlete than Jordan Oliver. I expect Maple and Oliver to be the top 2 at 145.5 pounds after next year.

 

Never bet against the great athlete, just ask Ed Banach who was a 2-time champ going for his 3rd in a row until he ran into Mark Schultz in the finals. I have always recalled what Stan Abel said to the reporter about 2 hours before the1982 NCAA finals. Stan said Ed Banach is a great wrestler, but Mark Schultz is a pure athlete. I like our chances. I've seen how Kendric Maple as a pure freshman did against Jordan Oliver as a redshirt freshman. I told Logan and Hunter the reason Jordan Oliver was at 149 was he wanted no part of Kendric Maple. After the tournament Logan told me I was right that Kendric was tough. Hunter is a very good wrestler, but I've watched him, athletically he isn't as good as Maple.

 

It will be a match of different styles. OU may go to the CKLV this year, so we may see an early matchup of one of the Stiebers vs. Maple.

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I don't have the time or inclination to go over Ed Ruth's resume although I will note that he majored a two time finalist, 3x AA in the finals this past March while Logan got put on his back by a first time finalist, 2x AA.

 

For more info see Div I Wrestling.... or you can just ask Scribe if Ed Ruth has any more quality wins.

 

Would you say that based on that one win that Ruth has an agrument over Stieber? Shouldn't we mention that Stieber has wrestled Ramos about 4-5 times now? I believe Ruth's other win(s) over Hamlin were by 2 points.

 

Like I said before, go to D1 College Wrestling website and you can get all the information you want.

 

Fyi, Flo has Ruth #2 and Stieber #4 in their final pfp rankings. Why don't you go argue with Vais for a while.

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Finally, using a victory in an exhibition with a 4lb allowance can not be viewed in the same light as a win in an international tournament . Does Stieber beat Sat wrestling in an open in Russia at scratch weight?

 

While this may be true, SAT throttled Scott under the same circumstances. Using the "exhibition" explanation would be appropriate if SAT continued his poor performance in his other matches. As well, would you apply that "exhibition" tag to Coleman Scott's loss? Do you think he wasnt giving it his all?

 

w.s

 

Here's a radical thought; Stieber may be bigger then Scott and was better able to take advantage of the weight allowance.They also wrestled under different rules. That being said, I would love to see Stieber beat him again. Despite all this nonsense, I am a fan of Logan and was very excited to see him win like he did. Bottom line is the guy is extremely talented and wins with class; I think he could accomplish some great things on the world stage. The problem is we continue to have posters who want to use selective results in a different style to prop up a particular wrestler over another in folk. The win over Sat was impressive but if you're objective, the losses to Hump and Graff at the Open should count just as much, if not more.

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It just kills me how some wrestling "fans" are able to belittle and rationalize away a big win for someone. The kids wins two NCAA titles in two tries, wins silver in the Jr. Worlds, just gets done beating the world ranked No. 1 easily, and that isn't good enough....wow!! :roll:

 

It just kills me how some wrestling "fans" live in their own fantasy world where they distort discussions and ignore what could be considered identical comments by others as they belittle and rationalize. Wow!! :roll: :roll:

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Saying Ruth isn't in the conversation is laughable. We are talking folkstyle, right, or are we mixing in Freestyle (with weight allowance) to get the results we want? Ed has faced, and defeated, more quality college competition then anyone coming back next season. Also, for someone who lectures that we must consider all competition, you sure did forget about the U.S. Open last month.

 

We're talking about all competition, which includes freestyle. I did not forget the U.S. open, I actually made mention of it in my post!

 

Ed has not impressed the way Logan has against the very best. Do you disagree? If we go down a level or two and consider college competition, it can still be argued that Ed hasn't been as impressive as Stieber, although that could be debated. Overall, how can Ruth be ahead of Stieber? What's the argument?

 

Edit: *Called the U.S. Open, U.S. nationals.*

 

In folkstyle, if I had to bet on ruth or steiber being an ncaa champ in 2014, id go with ruth. I think a lot of people would.

 

Steiber generally edges ramos and up a weight, he's unproven

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Guest Hammerlock3

Stieber isn't the most dynamic wrestler, is strength is a few positions, which is why people who know him like Ramos can keep it close and people who don't like Sat can look kinda stupid.

 

Despite being unbelievably a great game plan could make him very beatable.

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Stieber isn't the most dynamic wrestler, is strength is a few positions, which is why people who know him like Ramos can keep it close and people who don't like Sat can look kinda stupid.

 

Despite being unbelievably a great game plan could make him very beatable.

 

I think he's a bit deceiving in this sense though because his movements don't seem super athletic like a Dake or Oliver, but then look at the way he finished the 3rd period at beat the streets last year. Or even I think of his (failed) TD defense against JO's first period double leg at national duals gives a glimpse of the raw talent underneath.

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Maple is a freak athlete. A tremendous wrestler. A champion. Has a shot to be a legit international competitor.

 

Logan is the future of United States Olympic Freestyle wrestling. Gold Medal.

 

there is a difference.

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Maple is a freak athlete. A tremendous wrestler. A champion. Has a shot to be a legit international competitor.

 

Logan is the future of United States Olympic Freestyle wrestling. Gold Medal.

 

there is a difference.

 

Agreed. One of those things is a fact, and one is an opinion.

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Finally, using a victory in an exhibition with a 4lb allowance can not be viewed in the same light as a win in an international tournament . Does Stieber beat Sat wrestling in an open in Russia at scratch weight?

 

While this may be true, SAT throttled Scott under the same circumstances. Using the "exhibition" explanation would be appropriate if SAT continued his poor performance in his other matches. As well, would you apply that "exhibition" tag to Coleman Scott's loss? Do you think he wasnt giving it his all?

 

w.s

 

Here's a radical thought; Stieber may be bigger then Scott and was better able to take advantage of the weight allowance.They also wrestled under different rules. That being said, I would love to see Stieber beat him again. Despite all this nonsense, I am a fan of Logan and was very excited to see him win like he did. Bottom line is the guy is extremely talented and wins with class; I think he could accomplish some great things on the world stage. The problem is we continue to have posters who want to use selective results in a different style to prop up a particular wrestler over another in folk. The win over Sat was impressive but if you're objective, the losses to Hump and Graff at the Open should count just as much, if not more.

 

If you're talking about me, I'm not using selective results. I'm very much counting the entire U.S. Open where both Stieber and Ruth took 4th. Still, while in college, Stieber definitely has more quality wins than Ed Ruth against top level competition. Do you disagree? I guess the point is, if you think it's ridiculous to not even consider Ed Ruth for "best current college wrestler", that implies that a reasonable case can be made for him to be over Stieber and others. Maybe he has a case. Would you like to make it? If not, what's the point in calling out the ridiculousness of not considering Ruth without making a positive case for him?

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Big Apple,

 

I really like your posts, but I'd like to know if you have some justification for repeatedly saying that Oliver was at 149 because of Maple? Did you hear some inside information, or is it just your opinion? If it's your opinion, it might be best to make that clear. It looks like you're saying that it's a fact that Oliver was afraid to wrestle Kendrick Maple so he went out of his way to intentionally avoid the matchup. In a sport like wrestling, that can be taken as a very disrespectful (to say the least) comment. I know of their previous meeting with Oliver's late comeback, but Oliver still won that match. Maybe Oliver wasn't at all worried that a second match would go the same way.

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Maple is a freak athlete. A tremendous wrestler. A champion. Has a shot to be a legit international competitor.

 

Logan is the future of United States Olympic Freestyle wrestling. Gold Medal.

 

there is a difference.

 

Agreed. One of those things is a fact, and one is an opinion.

 

 

Vak,

 

I agree, the fact that Logan is the future of United State Olympic Freestyle wrestling is just that, fact. Gold Medal is just an opinion :D

 

Everyone knows your Ramos's butt buddy (and butt hurt over his loss (x5)) but c'mon the kid is a Junior World Silver Medalist and just beat the #1 in the world. I guess Maples domination ( :o :o ) of Port is just as valid of an indicator.

 

w.s

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