Jump to content
gowrestle

Spencer Lee Done?

Recommended Posts

I’ve read it.
It just that the plan didn’t and doesn’t make sense, to me at least. 
I can’t remember any other elite wrestlers with such aspirations who blew out their knee(s) and decided not to get surgery. I mean, his rehab time post surgery would be fairly far along if he’d have gone that route.

I should also add it’s ironic for you to call out others for being wrong when Lee is the one getting surgery now while many people have been saying for a long time that he should have got surgery and rested up.
People have been calling for it with no inside info. He made the decision within the context of his prior injury. He thought he would be able to recover similarly to his prior injury and wanted to win another team title. He tried and he wasn't.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, wamba said:

I’ve read it.

It just that the plan didn’t and doesn’t make sense, to me at least. 

I can’t remember any other elite wrestlers with such aspirations who blew out their knee(s) and decided not to get surgery. I mean, his rehab time post surgery would be fairly far along if he’d have gone that route.

I should also add it’s ironic for you to call out others for being wrong when Lee is the one getting surgery now while many people have been saying for a long time that he should have got surgery and rested up.

Surgery isn't the only option though. There are people out there that have played elite sports without an acl. It's rare, but it does happen.

This is what it kind of sounds like to me:

- Tears ACL in HS and goes through the surgery and rehab.
- Tears ACL again and wants to look at alternate options because of previous experience of surgery and rehab. When you tear it that soon after it can feel pretty useless. Also, timeline may not guarantee he gets to wrestle the next year since it would be under 12 months. He has stated the team title was his most important thing.
- Rehab goes well and he doesn't really have much of a problem.
- Tears the other ACL.
- Previous rehab went well, so might as well just rehab again.
- After NCAAs is done he can get them both and rest up for a year+ and prepare for the 23' worlds.

Seems like a logical conclusion even if it isn't the normal one. I'm guessing the lack of ACL in one knee affected the rehab for the other since a lot of compensation is going to have to take place.

Edited by cowcards15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, wamba said:

I’ve read it.

It just that the plan didn’t and doesn’t make sense, to me at least. 

I can’t remember any other elite wrestlers with such aspirations who blew out their knee(s) and decided not to get surgery. I mean, his rehab time post surgery would be fairly far along if he’d have gone that route.

I should also add it’s ironic for you to call out others for being wrong when Lee is the one getting surgery now while many people have been saying for a long time that he should have got surgery and rested up.

Yianni had surgery in March following his first NCAA championship, competed the next November, beat Eierman on 12/30, and went 29-0 for the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, VakAttack said:

People are taking a really simple situation and making it extremely complicated and Machiavellian to take a shot at Brands.

 

He wanted to compete. He tried. It wasn't working. He aborted the mission.

 

The most likely scenario is that winning a year title means a lot to him and this was Iowa's most reasonable shot at it for the next few years, and/or he didn't want to wrestle another year of NCAA style, so he decided to try to push thru since he dominated last year. The newest knee injury didn't respond (as he explicitly stated) so he pulled the plug. Now he'll come back because 4 titles is obviously a big deal.

 

You only have to listen to one interview to realize that Lee and his family were very involved in this decision-making process.

 

Anyway, this sucks.

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Yup.  Demonizing Lee, Brands, or Team Iowa for this is nonesense.   But it does indeed suck as Lee is one of our sport's toughest and best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, klehner said:

Yianni had surgery in March following his first NCAA championship, competed the next November, beat Eierman on 12/30, and went 29-0 for the season.

Yeah, exactly. Getting surgery seems both the safe and optimal plan which is why I’m surprised to not get it earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cowcards15 said:

Surgery isn't the only option though. There are people out there that have played elite sports without an acl. It's rare, but it does happen.

This is what it kind of sounds like to me:

- Tears ACL in HS and goes through the surgery and rehab.
- Tears ACL again and wants to look at alternate options because of previous experience of surgery and rehab. When you tear it that soon after it can feel pretty useless. Also, timeline may not guarantee he gets to wrestle the next year since it would be under 12 months. He has stated the team title was his most important thing.
- Rehab goes well and he doesn't really have much of a problem.
- Tears the other ACL.
- Previous rehab went well, so might as well just rehab again.
- After NCAAs is done he can get them both and rest up for a year+ and prepare for the 23' worlds.

Seems like a logical conclusion even if it isn't the normal one. I'm guessing the lack of ACL in one knee affected the rehab for the other since a lot of compensation is going to have to take place.

Described this way I can understand the thought process from Spencer. Good explanation IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, klehner said:

Yianni had surgery in March following his first NCAA championship, competed the next November, beat Eierman on 12/30, and went 29-0 for the season.

I'm not a knee expert or anything, but I just had ACL surgery a few months ago have done a ton of research (actual scientific papers/studies) on return time. I wouldn't recommend any one come back before 9 months and if you can afford it 12 months (or more depending on type of graft used). Even if it feels good, it is very rarely fully healed at 6 months and the incidents of re-tear start decreasing dramatically each month after 6.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lee's ACL's are drilling downstairs now (and will be for the next year). 

Wonder how schools manage scholarship money for extra COVID, medical redshirts, redshirt years.  If they honor multiple scholarships for 6 years that doesn't leave much for recruiting.  Just wondering how all this stuff impacts that average Joe wrestler.  Do grad students get scholarships?  Are there limitations on how many years a wrestler gets money?  Who thought up the B10 limitation of 9.9?  Why 9.9?  Can athletic scholarship recipients get additional scholarships?  

Edited by swoopdown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly the brands need to be fired immediatly. The fact that they didnt lock Lee in their basement, and tell him the only way he could come out is if he got surgery, is just bad coaching.

Hopefully Iowa realizes this, and hires a coach that doesn't care what his athelte or their family thinks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Molsen said:

Honestly the brands need to be fired immediatly. The fact that they didnt lock Lee in their basement, and tell him the only way he could come out is if he got surgery, is just bad coaching.

Hopefully Iowa realizes this, and hires a coach that doesn't care what his athelte or their family thinks.

Hell yeah. I'm for it. I hope the brands tell him he can't come back on the team. Just be done with college. Take 2 years to rehab, maybe hit up AJ for some residual stem cells, then come back in '24 with a vengeance 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, swoopdown said:

Lee's ACL's are drilling downstairs now (and will be for the next year). 

Wonder how schools manage scholarship money for extra COVID, medical redshirts, redshirt years.  If they honor multiple scholarships for 6 years that doesn't leave much for recruiting.  Just wondering how all this stuff impacts that average Joe wrestler.  Do grad students get scholarships?  Are there limitations on how many years a wrestler gets money?  Who thought up the B10 limitation of 9.9?  Why 9.9?  Can athletic scholarship recipients get additional scholarships?  

It’s not a B1G limitation, it’s an NCAA rule.  There used to be 11 scholarships, but then the NCAA made a 10% reduction, which is 9.9.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, jchapman said:

It’s not a B1G limitation, it’s an NCAA rule.  There used to be 11 scholarships, but then the NCAA made a 10% reduction, which is 9.9.

thanks.  did the NCAA make a 10% reduction across multiple sports?  was this somehow connected to title IX?  9.9 seems so random.  Were they trying to be "fair" across the board - reducing men's sports and increasing women's?  If not, someone should introduce them to the concept of rounding.  

Maybe scholarship money should be tied to the number of varsity matches wrestled.  Pay to play.  That could end many of the duck issues.  But probably would be a unfair in 1000 other ways especially to real injuries - just brainstorming not really proposing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, swoopdown said:

thanks.  did the NCAA make a 10% reduction across multiple sports?  was this somehow connected to title IX?  9.9 seems so random.  Were they trying to be "fair" across the board - reducing men's sports and increasing women's?  If not, someone should introduce them to the concept of rounding.  

Maybe scholarship money should be tied to the number of varsity matches wrestled.  Pay to play.  That could end many of the duck issues.  But probably would be a unfair in 1000 other ways especially to real injuries - just brainstorming not really proposing.

I think it was across multiple sports.  It’s been several years since it happened and my memory is cloudy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, jchapman said:

I think it was across multiple sports.  It’s been several years since it happened and my memory is cloudy.

Yes (to multiple sports not to your description of your memory). Somewhere around '92.

As to quoted question of being tied to Title IX- hmm, don't know. I believe it was trying to cut down football actually but that could well be from T-9.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, swoopdown said:

thanks.  did the NCAA make a 10% reduction across multiple sports?  was this somehow connected to title IX?  9.9 seems so random.  Were they trying to be "fair" across the board - reducing men's sports and increasing women's?  If not, someone should introduce them to the concept of rounding.  

Maybe scholarship money should be tied to the number of varsity matches wrestled.  Pay to play.  That could end many of the duck issues.  But probably would be a unfair in 1000 other ways especially to real injuries - just brainstorming not really proposing.

NCAA reduced them back in 1991 to reduce costs. Did 10% across all sports, including football who was at 95 at the time. Now 85. It doesn't look to have anything to do with Title 9. Just money.

Pay to play is 1 of the main NCAA regulations related to amateurs and a big no no for them. Scholarships can't be tied to performance or athletics metrics. It's a good thing for the athletes.

If you want to read about the reduction:

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/10/sports/ncaa-cuts-practice-scholarships-and-seasons.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/1/2022 at 7:20 PM, TBar1977 said:

Agree. This feels as though they miscalculated. To read Hawkeye fans, Spencer could win NCAAs with anything short of an amputation. So why didn't he just have the surgery 9 months ago? 

Others probably already said this, but I wonder if his decision was driven by a perceived increased likelihood that NCAAs will be cancelled this year.

He's known for a while he needs surgery.  I kind of doubt he had any sudden medical revelation between 10 days ago at Journeyman Duals and today, except maybe some added soreness.  I assume his initial calculus was to gut it out with a dual here and there, take Big 10s and NCAAs, get his 4th and a team title with his brothers, and then deal with the knee(s) post-Iowa.  And that's apparently been just fine with his coaches as of a couple weeks ago.  

But then the Midlands were cancelled on account of Covid.  There's been a lot of hand-wringing since then about NCAAs possibly being cancelled.  The concern isn't unwarranted:  if you've been following the news, Detroit is among the places where new Covid cases have been spiking like crazy, and the NCAA is notoriously risk-averse.  That's got to affect the calculus for Lee/Iowa.  I can easily see him and/or his coaches thinking, you know, the chances of NCAAs actually going forward in Detroit are at best 50-50, if they're cancelled it means the loss of a team & 4th individual title, we have the medical redshirt year if we need it but we need to act now to preserve it. 

I've been critical of what I see as Brands' failure to rein in his thoroughbred's inclination to run even when injured, but even here I've got to think Brands would prefer a 90% chance of having Lee next year to running a 50-50ish risk of losing Lee's last year to Covid.  Especially if he thinks they can win without him this year even if NCAAs aren't cancelled (and they can, its just harder).

Obviously this is all speculation.  Maybe there was some major medical event in the last 7-10 days, and either way I'm not saying any of the stuff Spencer says in his tweet is false.  But given the sequence of events, I think its fair to wonder if he'd have made the same decision if NCAAs were definitely on.  My hunch is no.

Edited by BAC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, BAC said:

Others probably already said this, but I wonder if his decision was driven by a perceived increased likelihood that NCAAs will be cancelled this year.

He's known for a while he needs surgery.  I kind of doubt he had any sudden medical revelation between 10 days ago at Journeyman Duals and today, except maybe some added soreness.  I assume his initial calculus was to gut it out with a dual here and there, take Big 10s and NCAAs, get his 4th and a team title with his brothers, and then deal with the knee(s) post-Iowa.  And that's apparently been just fine with his coaches as of a couple weeks ago.  

But then the Midlands were cancelled on account of Covid.  There's been a lot of hand-wringing since then about NCAAs possibly being cancelled.  The concern isn't unwarranted:  if you've been following the news, Detroit is among the places where new Covid cases have been spiking like crazy, and the NCAA is notoriously risk-averse.  That's got to affect the calculus for Lee/Iowa.  I can easily see him and/or his coaches thinking, you know, the chances of NCAAs actually going forward in Detroit are at best 50-50, if they're cancelled it means the loss of a team & 4th individual title, we have the medical redshirt year if we need it but we need to act now to preserve it  

I've been critical of what I see as Brands' failure to rein in his thoroughbred's inclination to run even when injured, but even here I've got to think Brands would prefer a 90% chance of having Lee next year to running a 50-50ish risk of losing Lee's last year to Covid.  Especially if he thinks they can win without him this year even if NCAAs aren't cancelled (and they can, its just harder).

Obviously this is all speculation.  Maybe there was some major medical event in the last 7-10 days, and either way I'm not saying any of the stuff Spencer says in his tweet is false.  But given the sequence of events, I think its fair to wonder if he'd have made the same decision if NCAAs were definitely on.  My hunch is no.

It’s the opposite of your thought process. He was hoping for a medical revelation and didn’t get one. He hasn’t been feeling very good for a while and was hoping that it would be better wrestling the duals so he gave it a shot. It didn’t feel like he was hoping it would and thus opted to do the surgery. They knew that they would stay under the medshirt number so it wasn’t much of a concern to try out side of finding out for sure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't blame the Brands Bros. for how any decision was made. I am convinced Spencer Lee has the stature and brain trust outside of the staff there at Iowa and can make up their own minds how they wanted to proceed. However. one thing I do find interesting is the confirmation one more time to take what athletes say with a complete grain of salt. On media day a reporter point blank asked Lee about "his health". It seemed obvious to me the reporter was asking about his knees. Spencer proclaimed to be in perfect health, or 100 percent, or something to that effect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...