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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Yeah, but also Eierman's takedown was the greatest takedown in the history of planet Earth, so that should have been worth like 7 points.

Agreed, but not so much because of Eierman, but because it was Nick Lee. And NO ONE takes down Nick Lee.

Which was amply demonstrated in the NCAA final.

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2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Based on what exactly?  He is 10-2, with both losses coming to the 3rd place finisher from last year. His last loss was 6-5 in a match he was leading until the last 30 seconds or so. 
 

His trajectory is consistently going up. He may not be Spencer Lee, but let’s not forget he also lost as a true freshman to Bresser before his redshirt was pulled at almost exactly the same time in the season. 
 

This is 125 we are talking about. NO ONE is close to getting the performance at that weight, that Brands and Iowa have done. At other weights, I could definitely see some doubt. But, at 125, I wouldn’t doubt them for a second. 

Based soley on my observations and opinion that I've developed after watching the matches.  He's impressive, no doubt, but we're talking about AA'ing.  A previous poster posted the below potential schedule.  Let's play this out: 

McKee, Mn - Is Ayala beating him when McKee is also peaking at Big 10's and NCAA's?  Right now, he's close, sure, but...maybe he could sneak out a win.

Schroeder, Pur - Is Ayala beating Schroeder?  I don't think so, if Schroeder is wrestling to his potential.

DeAugustino, NW - He's a tough out as well.

Cardani, Ill - I see Ayala winning this one.

Hildebrandt, PSU - I see Hildebrandt winning this one.

Heinselman, tOSU - I see this as a toss-up.  Again, borderline AA candidates, assuming all goes right.  Malik is in the same/similar tier as Ayala in my opinion.

Barnett, Wis - I see Ayala potentially winning this

Mastrogiovanni, Ok St - Mastro has looked improved.  I don't know if Ayala can beat this year's Mastro.

Cronin, Neb - A tough out also, but winnable by Ayala.  

So, out of this list, I'm counting 4 folks that Ayala would theoretically lose to.  Add Suriano, Arujau & Glory, Courtney, there's a total of 8, which puts him outside looking in at the podium.  Add in Cardinale, and then maybe Kaylor (who is wrestling REALLY well this year), and you have a solid group of guys that can keep him from seeing the podium. 

Will it happen?  I have no clue.  Will Ayala bust my prediction?  I hope so.  I'm not tied to it, and I have very little care as to whether or not my prediction holds true.  I just see a lot of potential landmines, and McKee's performance last year was absent many of those aforementioned.  Latona was an AA last year.  How's his season going thus far?  Point is, last season was a bit of an anomaly, and I think we're going to see some interesting things this year.  If Ayala AA's, then good on him, he'll absolutely deserve it to make it through this field.  

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2 hours ago, treep2000 said:

Ayala is Iowas best answer for 125 at this point.  He will not place.  He could be a bloodhound type of guy, this year.  Can or will he AA in his career, I'd have to think yes, but not this year. 

IMO the worst part of this prediction is saying "I'd have to think he will be an AA in his career" which doesn't sound very confident.  I would say I'd be surprised if he's not a multiple-time AA.

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5 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Agreed, but not so much because of Eierman, but because it was Nick Lee. And NO ONE takes down Nick Lee.

Which was amply demonstrated in the NCAA final.

No idea what you're talking about, they didn't contest the 141 lb. weight class at NCAAs last year, so the winner of B1Gs was declared champion.  Weird choice, but that's how it happened.

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43 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Agreed, but not so much because of Eierman, but because it was Nick Lee. And NO ONE takes down Nick Lee.

Which was amply demonstrated in the NCAA final.

NCAA Final = The professor making an adjustment. Ha ha. 

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59 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

IMO the worst part of this prediction is saying "I'd have to think he will be an AA in his career" which doesn't sound very confident.  I would say I'd be surprised if he's not a multiple-time AA.

In this new year, I propose we all try just slightly harder at not nit-picking the semantics.  Makes life a whole lot more enjoyable to just be enjoying the conversation instead of critiquing idiosyncrasies of used phrases. 

I think he will be an AA.  Not this year.  Now if that turns out to be a multi-time AA, or NCAA champ, or nothing at all, time will tell.  Wrestling is hard.  The world right now is hard.  A lot of things can, and most likely will happen that will affect outcomes from many a wrestler. 

How many picked Marinelli to be a multi-time champ?  Same with Mark Hall?  Those predictions didn't materialize either do to whatever circumstances.  

Hell.  Buckeye Nation was thrilled to get Hoffman, predicting multiple AA and NCAA champ potential.  He's barely top 25 these days.  

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4 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Few true freshman wrestle for any top team. The reason is that they are typically not good enough to AA, let alone place 4th. 

Which true freshman did Brands Bros. have that you are willing to claim could have placed 4th or better but only failed to do so because of being redshirted? 

as others have pointed out you asked a theoretical question and then dismissed the answer as theoretical. hilarious. 

other guys that could have placed (because that’s what you asked)

cory clark (beat that year’s ncaa champ)

brandon sorensen (sv loss to 4th place habat, win over r12 (returning aa) niebert)

kemerer (others have laid this out)

marinelli and young would have both been ranked top 12ish coming out of midlands, in striking distance

warner beat miklus and jake smith who was pretty good. like marinelli and young, not a favorite to place but beat an AA so you have to include him. RBY also wasn’t seeded to place. 

just a dumb argument in general that because they’ve only had 1 true freshman aa, it’s not likely when they’ve only given 1 true freshman the shot.

i could be just as annoying and say their 100% success rate means ayala is a lock for the 125 title this year. after all, an iowa wrestler has won 125 3 straight years. the trend is clear.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

as others have pointed out you asked a theoretical question and then dismissed the answer as theoretical. hilarious. 

other guys that could have placed (because that’s what you asked)

cory clark (beat that year’s ncaa champ)

brandon sorensen (sv loss to 4th place habat, win over r12 (returning aa) niebert)

kemerer (others have laid this out)

marinelli and young would have both been ranked top 12ish coming out of midlands, in striking distance

warner beat miklus and jake smith who was pretty good. like marinelli and young, not a favorite to place but beat an AA so you have to include him. RBY also wasn’t seeded to place. 

just a dumb argument in general that because they’ve only had 1 true freshman aa, it’s not likely when they’ve only given 1 true freshman the shot.

i could be just as annoying and say their 100% success rate means ayala is a lock for the 125 title this year. after all, an iowa wrestler has won 125 3 straight years. the trend is clear.

 

 

 

What's this? War and Peace? 

Still this many true freshman AAs not named Spencer Lee for Iowa Wrestling since Brands Bros took over. 

16jnk7.jpg

 

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6 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

What's this? War and Peace? 

Still this many true freshman AAs not named Spencer Lee for Iowa Wrestling since Brands Bros took over. 

16jnk7.jpg

 

Soooo, youre too dumb to realize that the Brands have had very few true-freshmen go? Why do you need the obvious explained to you all the time?

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31 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Soooo, youre too dumb to realize that the Brands have had very few true-freshmen go? Why do you need the obvious explained to you all the time?

Lol. No debate is complete until you get flushed out of the weeds. 

Seriously, nobody is arguing they don't wrestle true freshmen except rarely, but you knew that. Now try to use your remaining brain cells to answer why this is the case. And don't give me Vak's reasons. We all know them. 

To suggest, which you stubborn fans are doing, that Iowa could have had numerous or even several true freshman AAs and even 4th place finishers in recent years if they chose to just wrestle them is silly. It pre supposes all these freshmen were good enough to actually achieve such a result in the biggest hardest tournament in college wrestling. Again, silliness. Anything is possible, but none of it likely except in the rare "Spencer Lee" type situation. 

Not all zeros are alike but ......... that is indeed the number. 

A nip in the air - meme

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4 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

and yet we’re the real losers because he keeps getting us to respond. a world historical level idiot has cast a spell on us

You choose to respond. No one forces you to make the arguments you make all in the name of defending the program (against not much of anything to begin with). You can't help yourself. But you keep on keepin' on. 

Edited by TBar1977

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10 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Lol. No debate is complete until you get flushed out of the weeds. 

Seriously, nobody is arguing they don't wrestle true freshmen except rarely, but you knew that. Now try to use your remaining brain cells to answer why this is the case. And don't give me Vak's reasons. We all know them. 

To suggest, which you stubborn fans are doing, that Iowa could have had numerous or even several true freshman AAs and even 4th place finishers in recent years if they chose to just wrestle them is silly. It pre supposes all these freshmen were good enough to actually achieve such a result in the biggest hardest tournament in college wrestling. Again, silliness. Anything is possible, but none of it likely except in the rare "Spencer Lee" type situation. 

Not all zeros are alike but ......... that is indeed the number. 

A nip in the air - meme

Oh, you are saying they were just never good enough. Well, then that just means that Brands make good decisions for their athletes and can develop talent. Hahaha thats a real zinger tho Tbar! Hahaha

 

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27 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

and yet we’re the real losers because he keeps getting us to respond. a world historical level idiot has cast a spell on us

Nah, hes not even a good troll. The best way to make Tbar look stupid is to allow him to keep talking.

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27 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Lol. No debate is complete until you get flushed out of the weeds. 

Seriously, nobody is arguing they don't wrestle true freshmen except rarely, but you knew that. Now try to use your remaining brain cells to answer why this is the case. And don't give me Vak's reasons. We all know them. 

To suggest, which you stubborn fans are doing, that Iowa could have had numerous or even several true freshman AAs and even 4th place finishers in recent years if they chose to just wrestle them is silly. It pre supposes all these freshmen were good enough to actually achieve such a result in the biggest hardest tournament in college wrestling. Again, silliness. Anything is possible, but none of it likely except in the rare "Spencer Lee" type situation. 

Not all zeros are alike but ......... that is indeed the number. 

A nip in the air - meme

If we all agree that Iowa rarely wrestles freshmen, in that already rare scenario, why are you treating Spencer Lee as an exception?  Even the last guy that I’m aware of that did it made the R12.  Why is it assumed Ayala is not a “Spencer Lee type situation”?  Probably the only reason he wasn’t already wrestling was because he was behind Spencer Lee…

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2 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

If we all agree that Iowa rarely wrestles freshmen, in that already rare scenario, why are you treating Spencer Lee as an exception?  Even the last guy that I’m aware of that did it made the R12.  Why is it assumed Ayala is not a “Spencer Lee type situation”?  Probably the only reason he wasn’t already wrestling was because he was behind Spencer Lee…

They have to wrestle him...why'd they drag back all these mummies to wrestle if they weren't willing to throw out a guy who can redshirt next year. 

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