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Gable Steveson

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14 minutes ago, buckshot1969 said:

I don't think you can be the best ever if you lost twice to a guy who was barely even recruited.

Depends on your definition. Barely even recruited by big schools? Ok, fine. Barely even recruited by anyone is a stretch. He didn't breakthrough until his senior year, and when you win something like the NJ state tournament, your phone and mailbox gets blown up. Maybe he didn't want to hear from Rider or Drexel or George Mason and programs of the like - but that's still recruitment. He didn't hear from Penn State or Oklahoma State ... 

... and how many of the greats have losses when they're 18? John Smith lost to a guy named Dan Foldesy from Cleveland State and DNP'ed as a freshman. He also lost in freestyle coming up to Larry Nugent when he was around the same age. 

There's levels to this. Once Gable matured, it' was a different story. 

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3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Probably? Likely? Almost certainly?

But Cassar will also almost certainly go to his grave being the only person in the world able to say "You know that guy who won the gold? Yeah, I beat him. Twice."

There's no probably about it, junior Cassar would get torched by junior Gable.

"Yea I beat him twice, I was four years older than him but I beat him"

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9 minutes ago, BTC said:

There's no probably about it, junior Cassar would get torched by junior Gable.

"Yea I beat him twice, I was four years older than him but I beat him"

Its ok. Red shirt seniors wrestle freshmen all the time. No one cares about the age difference. I don't recall Steveson complaining about having to wrestle upper classmen.

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36 minutes ago, BTC said:

There's no probably about it, junior Cassar would get torched by junior Gable.

"Yea I beat him twice, I was four years older than him but I beat him"

They were in the same age division when he beat him.  They were both college wrestlers.  I don't think it means much when considering how incredible Gable is, but when two college guys wrestle, it's a poor excuse to say one was older. 

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30 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Its ok. Red shirt seniors wrestle freshmen all the time. No one cares about the age difference. I don't recall Steveson complaining about having to wrestle upper classmen.

You're right they do wrestle all the time but I disagree that nobody cares about the age difference. They might not outright say it like I am but the age difference bias is there. How many comments are made about wrestlers like Kemmerer or Micic. Not a $hit ton but they do pop up every now and then.

What about when there is a true frosh national champ? It's a big deal when there is one cause it's obviously not done too often and it's no mystery as to why. Yes them being in a college room and learning more advanced techniques is absolutely a factor. However in my opinion the main factor in a second year wrestlers' improvement is the fact that they have another year of physical maturity under their belt. That and the access to top notch strength and conditioning programs optimizes that physical growth.

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3 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Gable could shatter all records and the same crowd would bring up Cassar. It’s like the girl that I see at high school reunions that reminds me in front of everyone that she took me down in 6th grade.

Yep, you and The Gable will always have something in common.  :)

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26 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Gable could shatter all records and the same crowd would bring up Cassar. It’s like the girl that I see at high school reunions that reminds me in front of everyone that she took me down in 6th grade.

I don't disagree. The funny part of this, is that you're bothered by it. The girl, not Cassar.

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47 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Gable could shatter all records and the same crowd would bring up Cassar. It’s like the girl that I see at high school reunions that reminds me in front of everyone that she took me down in 6th grade.

Thats just how it works. The better you are, the more your losses get celebrated.  

People always mention Ayik with Medved or Snyder with Sadulaev.   These losses had extenuating factors as well,  similar to Gable's age. 

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30 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

I don't disagree. The funny part of this, is that you're bothered by it. The girl, not Cassar.

You'd have to see her. She goes 3 bills, easy. When she brings up 'the takedown' at the reunions, shuck heads for the bar. Doesn't say a word, just scoots out. 

The really weird thing is that she had braces in high school - and she still does.

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1 hour ago, headshuck said:

Gable could shatter all records and the same crowd would bring up Cassar. It’s like the girl that I see at high school reunions that reminds me in front of everyone that she took me down in 6th grade.

It depends. How many records have you shattered? ;)

Still nowhere near a Karelin - Gardner footnote.

Edited by manatree

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2 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

You'd have to see her. She goes 3 bills, easy. When she brings up 'the takedown' at the reunions, shuck heads for the bar. Doesn't say a word, just scoots out. 

The really weird thing is that she had braces in high school - and she still does.

Is this who we are talking about?

She was 5 foot 6, two fifteen
A beach blonde mama with a streak of mean
She knew how to knuckle and she knew how to scuffle and fight
And the roller derby program said
That she was built like a 'fridgerator with a head
Her fans called her Tuffy, but all her buddies called her Spike

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2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Is this who we are talking about?

She was 5 foot 6, two fifteen
A beach blonde mama with a streak of mean
She knew how to knuckle and she knew how to scuffle and fight
And the roller derby program said
That she was built like a 'fridgerator with a head
Her fans called her Tuffy, but all her buddies called her Spike

I heard she was 4'2" weighed 57lb.

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3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Is this who we are talking about?

She was 5 foot 6, two fifteen
A beach blonde mama with a streak of mean
She knew how to knuckle and she knew how to scuffle and fight
And the roller derby program said
That she was built like a 'fridgerator with a head
Her fans called her Tuffy, but all her buddies called her Spike

No, that's not her. Here's a pic from her wrestling days. She's quite a bit heavier now but, then again, aren't we all. 

0196feff2ca68b66a6f86f93c2d8289a.jpg

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You'd have to see her. She goes 3 bills, easy. When she brings up 'the takedown' at the reunions, shuck heads for the bar. Doesn't say a word, just scoots out. 
The really weird thing is that she had braces in high school - and she still does.

She’s a nun!

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16 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Probably? Likely? Almost certainly?

But Cassar will also almost certainly go to his grave being the only person in the world able to say "You know that guy who won the gold? Yeah, I beat him. Twice."

Is this true?  No one else has beaten him twice?

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On 1/7/2022 at 11:45 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

 I was reminded of Matt Damon in "Good Will Hunting" yelling at the douche mathematician, "do you have any idea how easy this is for me?"

I read that the other way around: Matt Damon is the douche in that scene. That's how Robin Williams' character seems to read it. Beating up cops, dumping good girls, mocking folks are manifestations of his attachment disorder.

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12 hours ago, headshuck said:

Gable could shatter all records and the same crowd would bring up Cassar. It’s like the girl that I see at high school reunions that reminds me in front of everyone that she took me down in 6th grade.

Don't get me wrong. I am a huge Gable Steveson fan who is sad to see him fake wrestle when he is so dominant at real wrestling.

But anyone who discounts the Cassar wins or discounts them due to age difference is practicing some revisionist history. In Feb 2019, on this board, there was an early NCAA predictions thread. Of the 13 posters who made predictions, 12 picked Steveson and 1 picked Cassar to win it all.

Steveson was the favorite going in not Cassar. Steveson was being talked about as the heir apparent to the all-time greats, not Cassar. It was an upset when Cassar won at Big 10's.

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Look at Dan Gable's write up in Flo top 10

 "18-year-old Gable won the 1966 Midlands by defeating an Olympic silver medalist and a 28-year-old NCAA champion"

Steveson, Gable doesn't get to complain about a 4 yr older college wrestler if wanting to be in the best HWT discussion.  

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