Jump to content
ChicagoHawk

Gable Steveson

Recommended Posts

51 minutes ago, ionel said:

Look at Dan Gable's write up in Flo top 10

 "18-year-old Gable won the 1966 Midlands by defeating an Olympic silver medalist and a 28-year-old NCAA champion"

Steveson, Gable doesn't get to complain about a 4 yr older college wrestler if wanting to be in the best HWT discussion.  

 

34 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

19 year-old Lee Kemp had no complaints wrestling a 28 year-old Olympic champ.

To be fair, it wasn't Steveson complaining.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Is this who we are talking about?

She was 5 foot 6, two fifteen
A beach blonde mama with a streak of mean
She knew how to knuckle and she knew how to scuffle and fight
And the roller derby program said
That she was built like a 'fridgerator with a head
Her fans called her Tuffy, but all her buddies called her Spike

Reminds me of a story...
Back in about '74 I was working one summer for a buddy's father, Charlie, blacktopping a 20 mi stretch of new road.  He was a real ball buster and about 6'4, 320 lb.  After working 12 hr days, he would take us grunts to a local bar and buy us supper and lots of beers.  The owner of the bar was Rosie, she was about 5'1, 280, and real, real nasty.  After the last day we finished the job, we went to Rosie's and celebrated big time.  About 15 min before last call, Charlie tried to order lots of pitchers of beer.  Rosie said, Nope you get one more pitcher and then you're leaving.  Charlie tried to negotiate a bit, then said, I spent a ton of money here this summer and this is how you treat us?  Rosie then said, You're outta here now.  Charlie walked over toward her and said, You can take this place and shove it up your @$$, and by the looks of it, it'd fit.  Rosie held her ground and we all left.  I think if it turned physical, my money would have been on Rosie.  When it comes to the heavies, I'll take that low center of gravity and a mean streak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

Reminds me of a story...
Back in about '74 I was working one summer for a buddy's father, Charlie, blacktopping a 20 mi stretch of new road.  He was a real ball buster and about 6'4, 320 lb.  After working 12 hr days, he would take us grunts to a local bar and buy us supper and lots of beers.  The owner of the bar was Rosie, she was about 5'1, 280, and real, real nasty.  After the last day we finished the job, we went to Rosie's and celebrated big time.  About 15 min before last call, Charlie tried to order lots of pitchers of beer.  Rosie said, Nope you get one more pitcher and then you're leaving.  Charlie tried to negotiate a bit, then said, I spent a ton of money here this summer and this is how you treat us?  Rosie then said, You're outta here now.  Charlie walked over toward her and said, You can take this place and shove it up your @$$, and by the looks of it, it'd fit.  Rosie held her ground and we all left.  I think if it turned physical, my money would have been on Rosie.  When it comes to the heavies, I'll take that low center of gravity and a mean streak.

This is very important. I need to know which matters more because while I have mellowed with age my center of gravity gets lower with every passing meal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

This is very important. I need to know which matters more because while I have mellowed with age my center of gravity gets lower with every passing meal.

Center of gravity.  The Gable stands no chance against your plummeting CG.  However, you will be unable to do a backflip after beating him.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

This is very important. I need to know which matters more because while I have mellowed with age my center of gravity gets lower with every passing meal.

I have done some analysis of this and offer the following for your consideration:

Prob = f(1/CG, KI)       
Where Prob = Probability of winning match
             CG = Center of Gravity
              KI =  Killer Instinct

I'm still working on the relative importance of CG and KI (your question).  I also need to get something in there to account for the different weight classes.  I think the lower CG is more important in the higher weight classes, and probably the KI also. The struggle continues...
"Hey, Ma, where's my calculator?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

I have done some analysis of this and offer the following for your consideration:

Prob = f(1/CG, KI)       
Where Prob = Probability of winning match
             CG = Center of Gravity
              KI =  Killer Instinct

I'm still working on the relative importance of CG and KI (your question).  I also need to get something in there to account for the different weight classes.  I think the lower CG is more important in the higher weight classes, and probably the KI also. The struggle continues...
"Hey, Ma, where's my calculator?"

I'm guessing it's a TI-89

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Putting gable’s wrestling prowess aside, which in itself is off the charts, what impresses me most with Gable is his speed and agility for a heavyweight. A 250+ pound dude doing a round off, back flip effortlessly is insane!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ionel said:

Don't think so, Uetake never lost.

There is no such a thing as a truly unbeatable wrestler. Its a gimmick for billing in things like pro boxing. 

Even if you somehow manage to carefully craft a career where you stay undefeated. It means you didn't face the best when you were still too young and inexperienced and you left the sport before age caught up to you. 

Its much more impressive to have a long unbeaten match streak, thats where you can really compete against others for legacy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, HawkY said:

There is no such a thing as a truly unbeatable wrestler. Its a gimmick for billing in things like pro boxing. 

Even if you somehow manage to carefully craft a career where you stay undefeated. It means you didn't face the best when you were still too young and inexperienced and you left the sport before age caught up to you. 

Its much more impressive to have a long unbeaten match streak, thats where you can really compete against others for legacy. 

and thats what Uetake did, against the best in the US and the best in the world. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ionel said:

and thats what Uetake did, against the best in the US and the best in the world. 

His streak was not long, at the Senior level. 

He never competed in worlds or the Asian games either. 

Uetake's int career is two tournaments long. He might have competed in some minor events but they are unrecorded.  

And then he got beaten by an 18 year old in domestic trials  quite  shortly into his total amount of matches. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HawkY said:

His streak was not long, at the Senior level. 

He never competed in worlds or the Asian games either. 

Uetake's int career is two tournaments long. He might have competed in some minor events but they are unrecorded.  

And then he got beaten by an 18 year old in domestic trials  quite  shortly into his total amount of matches. 

Really, back then the best didn't wrestle worlds they went to Olympics.  He was in college wouldn't had time for all these other competitions.  Basically he was best in the world, given back to back Olympic champ, for effectively 5 year period (2 years of that in college).  He did wrestle Midlands post college, which back then (see Gable ref) was very competitive with post grads.  The Jr national ref above would've been when in high school the post career match has been questioned.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, gimpeltf said:

I mentioned Watanabe as in someone who never lost. Nothing to do with Uetake.

My bad, due to the question mark, I thought you were asking if Watanabe had beaten Uetake.

Interestingly though, Watanabe did eventually take a loss. He came out of retirement at the age of 47 in an attempt to represent Japan in the '88 Olympics.  The "Animal" won his first two bouts before finally losing, finishing with a 189-1 career record.  (Personally, I'm willing to give him a  pass on the sole loss under those circumstances.)

https://theolympians.co/2015/07/02/osamu-animal-watanabe-189-straight-victories-in-wrestling/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ionel said:

Really, back then the best didn't wrestle worlds they went to Olympics.  He was in college wouldn't had time for all these other competitions.  Basically he was best in the world, given back to back Olympic champ, for effectively 5 year period (2 years of that in college).  He did wrestle Midlands post college, which back then (see Gable ref) was very competitive with post grads.  The Jr national ref above would've been when in high school the post career match has been questioned.  

Do you have any proof that the best just wrestled Olympics for Japan?

Its not like these events were concurrent, so you could do both. Just glancing at t he past Olympic Japan champions from that era , most of them unlike Uetake do have a worlds or asian games on their record. 

Not questioning that careers were shorter than. Obviously they were. But Uetake's stint was especially short. Who knows he might have lost in that time if he went to other tournaments. 

Most people who won worlds or Olympics back to back once essentially replicated Uetake's senior career. A lot of people have done that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

My bad, due to the question mark, I thought you were asking if Watanabe had beaten Uetake.

Interestingly though, Watanabe did eventually take a loss. He came out of retirement at the age of 47 in an attempt to represent Japan in the '88 Olympics.  The "Animal" won his first two bouts before finally losing, finishing with a 189-1 career record.  (Personally, I'm willing to give him a  pass on the sole loss under those circumstances.)

https://theolympians.co/2015/07/02/osamu-animal-watanabe-189-straight-victories-in-wrestling/

 

I don't know how the Japanese domestic scene works. But I'm sure Watanabe could have been beaten at some point before turning 22.  The age he was at his first big international tournament. Wouldn't take anything away from him. He wrestled every big event in his 3 years , which was a normal length career back in the early 60s but very short by modern standards. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My comments in no way are to diminish the accomplishments of Gable Stevenson. He is by far the most dominating wrestling in the game. 

But in order to be considered "The Best", shouldn't you be expected to match the "0" in the 159-0 record that Cael has?  If you suffer a loss, how can that be considered "the greatest" over someone who never did in a four-year span?

Just my view from the cheap seats.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...