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2 hours ago, portajohn said:

How do you see it going?

I think your outcomes make sense, and if I had to choose each match individually in a vacuum I think I'd make most of the same picks. But for the dual as a whole, I can't envision more than a 6/4 split, even if individually it could come out to 7/3 or 8/2 in PSU's favor (does that make sense?).

Here are my biased prognostications:

Hilde DEC Ayala 3-0 PSU

RBY DEC DeSanta  6-0 PSU

Lee DEC Eierman 9-0 PSU

Murin DEC Bart Simpson 9-3

Young DEC Tony 9-6

Marinelli DEC Berge 9-9 

Kemerer DEC Starocci 12-9 IA (CARVER MAGIC)

Brooks DEC Assad 12-12 

Dean DEC Warner 15-12 PSU

Cass DEC Kerk 15-15 

 

This is totally going to happen

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16 hours ago, flyingcement said:

Hildebrandt dec Ayala 3-0

Bravo Young dec DeSanto 6-0

Lee dec Eierman 9-0

Bartlett dec Murin 12-0

Young dec Berge 12-3

Marinelli dec Edsell 12-6

Starocci dec Kemerer 15-6

Brooks major Assad 19-6

Dean dec Warner 22-6

Kerkvliet dec Cassioppi 25-6

 

Youch - that would sting in Iowa and the state might collapse in rage.   I think Iowa will find some Carver magic and win at least one or two close ones.  I doubt Iowa posts a big team score win margin against Lions, but Lions have a chance to post one.   

Probably take the under that all starters are available and would not be surprised to see many out or the match postponed or worse.  Apparently some Americans are doing their "own research" and reports are they are tending toward unusual and disturbing home remedies to prevent/cure virus.  Have not studied it, but seems like the pandemic is not on the wane in Big Ten campus communities and wrestling and other winter sports teams are in those commuities every day.  When the Iowa wrestlers stop by the campus coffee shop to get their oat milk lattes and mocha macchiatos with lowfat milk, the places are filled with anti-vaxers and ant-maskers - a scenario fraught w peril for wrestling fans and being repeated across Big Ten campuses across the country.  I wish we could bubble them up and have an accelerated season for our viewing pleasure, but not going to happen.  Pandemics and endemics: one more reason to move wrestling to Spring with a shorter season. 

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It is surprising to me how many act like 25-6 is possible for PSU, yet it wouldn't be for Iowa??

125:  Ayala could definitely win this match.  He just beat Schroder comfortably and was rather close with McKee.

133:  DeSanto has beaten RBY multiple times.  Now, I would call it an upset since RBY took his arm away, but this is not an auto-win by any means

141:  Eierman beat Lee a week and a half before NCAA's and lost to him there in OT.  Mind boggling how many think Lee is a lock.

149:  Murin could and probably should beat Bartlett

157:  Young could beat Berge(if it is in fact Berge) and probably should beat him since he hasn't wrestled competitively all season.

165:  Marinelli is probably the biggest favorite in the 10 weights.

174:  Kemerer actually beat Starocci decisively the 1st time they wrestled.  The second match, Starocci probably warranted a couple of stall calls.

184:  Brooks is the 2nd biggest favorite in the 10 weights.

197:  Warner can beat Dean.  Dean needs to actually beat a to 5 or 6 guy before automatically declaring him the winner.

285:  Cass beat Kerk convincingly.  Regardless of improving health,  he is a clear favorite until shown otherwise.

 

Now, I wouldn't pick this, but I also wouldn't pick 25-6 for PSU.  But, let's be CLEAR,  Iowa COULD win 9 weights, with 133 probably being the only weight where I would be a bit surprised if the Iowa wrestler won...

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Now, if I actually had to pick, since it is in Carver, I would go:

125:  Ayala 7-5 over Hildebrandt  Iowa 3-0

133:  RBY 4-3 over DeSanto Tied 3-3

141: Lee 5-4 over Eierman PSU 6-3

149: Murin 3-2 over Bartlett Tied 6-6

157:  Young 3-2 over Berge  Iowa 9-6

165:  Marinelli 10-2 over Edsell  Iowa 13-6

174:  Kemerer 6-4 over Starocci  Iowa 16-6

184:  Brooks 8-3 over Assad  Iowa 16-9

197:  Dean 5-3 over Warner  Iowa 16-12

285:  Cassioppi 4-0 over Kerkvliet  Iowa 19-12

 

If this dual was wrestled somewhere other than Carver,  I would probably pick Hildebrandt  and I would say there was a good chance PSU would win at either 149 or 157.  Make no mistake, Carver is a distinct advantage for Iowa!

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26 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

It is surprising to me how many act like 25-6 is possible for PSU, yet it wouldn't be for Iowa??

125:  Ayala could definitely win this match.  He just beat Schroder comfortably and was rather close with McKee.

133:  DeSanto has beaten RBY multiple times.  Now, I would call it an upset since RBY took his arm away, but this is not an auto-win by any means

141:  Eierman beat Lee a week and a half before NCAA's and lost to him there in OT.  Mind boggling how many think Lee is a lock.

149:  Murin could and probably should beat Bartlett

157:  Young could beat Berge(if it is in fact Berge) and probably should beat him since he hasn't wrestled competitively all season.

165:  Marinelli is probably the biggest favorite in the 10 weights.

174:  Kemerer actually beat Starocci decisively the 1st time they wrestled.  The second match, Starocci probably warranted a couple of stall calls.

184:  Brooks is the 2nd biggest favorite in the 10 weights.

197:  Warner can beat Dean.  Dean needs to actually beat a to 5 or 6 guy before automatically declaring him the winner.

285:  Cass beat Kerk convincingly.  Regardless of improving health,  he is a clear favorite until shown otherwise.

 

Now, I wouldn't pick this, but I also wouldn't pick 25-6 for PSU.  But, let's be CLEAR,  Iowa COULD win 9 weights, with 133 probably being the only weight where I would be a bit surprised if the Iowa wrestler won...

I think you are overstating the case a bit.

One guy thinks that and there are zero likes on the post. But if one is surprising to you, so be it.

Of the 9 who have posted projections (not including yours), 6 have PSU, 2 have Iowa, and 1 has it as a tie. The average score prediction is 18.55 - 12.55 PSU. Not exactly extreme. 

With your prediction it is 17.9 - 13.2 PSU with Iowa winning 3 of 10.

Lighten up, Francis. 

And if it makes you feel better, know that Wrestlestat has Iowa leading 20-0 after 6 weights and winning 23-9.

Edited by Wrestleknownothing

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18 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I think you are overstating the case a bit.

One guy thinks that and there are zero likes on the post. But if one is surprising to you, so be it.

Of the 9 who have posted projections (not including yours), 6 have PSU, 2 have Iowa, and 1 has it as a tie. The average score prediction is 18.55 - 12.55 PSU. Not exactly extreme. 

With your prediction it is 17.9 - 13.2 PSU with Iowa winning 3 of 10.

Lighten up, Francis. 

And if it makes you feel better, know that Wrestlestat has Iowa leading 20-0 after 6 weights and winning 23-9.

But, there are 3 on the 21-10 and the only difference is picking Bartlett instead of Murin...Let's not forget this is in Carver.  Carver is about as much advantage in wrestling as the 12th man has been in Seattle for quite some time.

In a vacuum, I would say either guy could reasonably win, except for 165 and 184.  However, Carver isn't a vacuum.  Now, at NCAA's, Sanderson has such a proven record of getting the absolute most out of his guys, that I wouldn't be so against picking mostly PSU in the close matches...

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

It is surprising to me how many act like 25-6 is possible for PSU, yet it wouldn't be for Iowa??

125:  Ayala could definitely win this match.  He just beat Schroder comfortably and was rather close with McKee.

133:  DeSanto has beaten RBY multiple times.  Now, I would call it an upset since RBY took his arm away, but this is not an auto-win by any means

141:  Eierman beat Lee a week and a half before NCAA's and lost to him there in OT.  Mind boggling how many think Lee is a lock.

149:  Murin could and probably should beat Bartlett

157:  Young could beat Berge(if it is in fact Berge) and probably should beat him since he hasn't wrestled competitively all season.

165:  Marinelli is probably the biggest favorite in the 10 weights.

174:  Kemerer actually beat Starocci decisively the 1st time they wrestled.  The second match, Starocci probably warranted a couple of stall calls.

184:  Brooks is the 2nd biggest favorite in the 10 weights.

197:  Warner can beat Dean.  Dean needs to actually beat a to 5 or 6 guy before automatically declaring him the winner.

285:  Cass beat Kerk convincingly.  Regardless of improving health,  he is a clear favorite until shown otherwise.

 

Now, I wouldn't pick this, but I also wouldn't pick 25-6 for PSU.  But, let's be CLEAR,  Iowa COULD win 9 weights, with 133 probably being the only weight where I would be a bit surprised if the Iowa wrestler won...

while I don’t think Penn state runs away with it, they overall have looked much better than Iowa so far , I’d except it to be a 1-6 point win for Penn state …I understand what you were doing with these picks but some of the stuff you put up is just preposterous
 

 

Desanto beat true freshman  RBY multiple times in 2019 lol it’s 2022 and Desanto hasn’t looked like himself all year

Eierman looks like a shell of himself, barely pulling out wins against Ryan Jack and Filius 

Berge last ncaa win was literally over Young , and young has looked like a guy who got pressured into coming back by his father in law, either way it’ll be a boring 1 takedown match 

174- Kem didn’t really have a “decisive” win against Star, i believe he caught him on his back on a dive roll and got 4 backs and that was the difference 

sure Warner can beat Dean but if you want to look at their track records Dean is definitely the favorite going in, but Warner has the style to hang around with anyone so it wouldnt shock me if Dean got Carvered 

and between cass losing a ton of weight and Kerk being healthy finally , both of them around the same weight I don’t think you can really call either a favorite, I think it’s a true toss up , cass used his size to bully Kerk and that advantage is gone now 

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

157:  Young 3-2 over Berge  Iowa 9-6

 

18 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Berge last ncaa win was literally over Young , and young has looked like a guy who got pressured into coming back by his father in law, either way it’ll be a boring 1 takedown match 

At this point the only info we have on Berge is from Jeff Byers, who is a reliable source, that Brady intends to go 165.  Obviously this can change and the team is better with him at 157.  @MSU158, I agree with the idea of Carver magic and Iowa can win but some of your predictions are over the top.  Marinelli majors Edsell but Brooks not majoring Assad, and Cass 4-0 over Kerk?  Wishful thinking

Edited by portajohn

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1 minute ago, Antitroll2828 said:

while I don’t think Penn state runs away with it, they overall have looked much better than Iowa so far , I’d except it to be a 1-6 point win for Penn state …I understand what you were doing with these picks but some of the stuff you put up is just preposterous
 

 

Desanto beat true freshman  RBY multiple times in 2019 lol it’s 2022 and Desanto hasn’t looked like himself all year

Eierman looks like a shell of himself, barely pulling out wins against Ryan Jack and Filius 

Berge last ncaa win was literally over Young , and young has looked like a guy who got pressured into coming back by his father in law, either way it’ll be a boring 1 takedown match 

174- Kem didn’t really have a “decisive” win against Star, i believe he caught him on his back on a dive roll and got 4 backs and that was the difference 

sure Warner can beat Dean but if you want to look at their track records Dean is definitely the favorite going in, but Warner has the style to hang around with anyone so it wouldnt shock me if Dean got Carvered 

and between cass losing a ton of weight and Kerk being healthy finally , both of them around the same weight I don’t think you can really call either a favorite, I think it’s a true toss up , cass used his size to bully Kerk and that advantage is gone now 

Take off the glasses and just look at what I typed.  I didn't say I picked all those wins.  In fact, I listed my predictions in the next post.  But, you can't ignore it is in Carver and you have way too much slant.

DeSanto has had 2 close matches all season.  He is 11-0 with 7 TF's and 1 MD.  His last match he looked off late, but he was never remotely close to losing.

Eierman looks more like he is experimenting than a shell of himself.  He is trying to force positions and leaving himself so wide open he has had problems countering.  But, his effort is still there and the gas tank has been there well enough to gut out a couple of wins in the end.  He is still 11-0.

Berge hasn't wrestled a match since last year and wasn't even in the PSU room.

Kemerer DID win decisively actually.  He scored 2 different takedowns.  One off his own attack and the other off Starocci's.  7-2 with 2 takedowns to zero and back points is UNDENIABLY decisive. 

How does Dean's track record trump Warner's?  I say this as a big fan of the Dean family.  He is probably the one PSU guy I will cheer for over anyone but an MSU wrestler.  But, that doesn't mean I would automatically favor him up a weight having really wrestled no one at 197 but Norfleet.

Cass actually used his mat wrestling to bully Kerk.  Until I see that no longer being a factor, I don't see how you can't favor Cass.

 

With all the above said, it IS in Carver and that was a major point of my contention.  If you read later posts, I do say it would be much harder for Iowa to win, especially at NCAA's.  Sanderson's track record is just way too strong at NCAA's to ignore!

 

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35 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

But, there are 3 on the 21-10 and the only difference is picking Bartlett instead of Murin...Let's not forget this is in Carver.  Carver is about as much advantage in wrestling as the 12th man has been in Seattle for quite some time.

In a vacuum, I would say either guy could reasonably win, except for 165 and 184.  However, Carver isn't a vacuum.  Now, at NCAA's, Sanderson has such a proven record of getting the absolute most out of his guys, that I wouldn't be so against picking mostly PSU in the close matches...

I am not sure I buy the Carver argument.

I went to the dual at Carver in 2020 and the atmosphere was awesome, but it is not clear to me that it really changed any outcomes. Certainly, during the Happel / Lee match the entire crowd was sitting silently as they watched Happel do his best imitation of a turtle.( Even Terry Brands sat quietly after the first few minutes). If the crowd was going to carry the day, you would expect most, if not all, toss ups to go Iowa's way, but that isn't what happened. Going in 133, 157, 165, 184 were toss ups and 3 of 4 went to PSU.

Overall the result wound up being much closer than anyone thought it would be. In the related 2020 thread there were 21 predictions with 17 picking Iowa to win, 3 picking PSU, and 1 tie (there is always one) with an average margin for Iowa of 5.6. It wound up being 2.

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4 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

I am not sure I buy the Carver argument.

I went to the dual at Carver in 2020 and the atmosphere was awesome, but it is not clear to me that it really changed any outcomes. Certainly, during the Happel / Lee match the entire crowd was sitting silently as they watched Happel do his best imitation of a turtle.( Even Terry Brands sat quietly after the first few minutes). If the crowd was going to carry the day, you would expect most, if not all, toss ups to go Iowa's way, but that isn't what happened. Going in 133, 157, 165, 184 were toss ups and 3 of 4 went to PSU.

Overall the result wound up being much closer than anyone thought it would be. In the related 2020 thread there were 21 predictions with 17 picking Iowa to win, 3 picking PSU, and 1 tie (there is always one) with an average margin for Iowa of 5.6. It wound up being 2.

What of those 4 matches were actually toss ups as proven by the end of the year results.

133-DeSanto vs. RBY  Going into the match it probably applied.  But, no one was ready for the adjustment RBY made and no crowd in the planet was going to help DeSanto that day.  Since then,  RBY has proven to be the favorite that day and ever since.  That isn't to say that DeSanto can't beat him, but he would have to wrestle a nearly flawless match to do so.

157-Young won decisively.

165-Now that was simply a great match.  Joseph won the big 50/50 position that day.  But, Joseph was also unflappable.  Wrestling in Carver probably actually helped to further motivate him.  Having lost to him twice before that probably didn't help Alex's chances at winning 3 in a row much either.

184-Finally, 184 wasn't a toss up in any way other than on paper.  Brooks made Assad look very slow and flat-footed the entire match.

 

Of those 4, the only toss up I really see is 165 and that is taking a 3x NCAA FInalist and 2x Champ against a guy that inarguably has gone 6th, 7th and DNP.  One guy has proven that he LIVED off big time matches...

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15 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

What of those 4 matches were actually toss ups as proven by the end of the year results.

133-DeSanto vs. RBY  Going into the match it probably applied.  But, no one was ready for the adjustment RBY made and no crowd in the planet was going to help DeSanto that day.  Since then,  RBY has proven to be the favorite that day and ever since.  That isn't to say that DeSanto can't beat him, but he would have to wrestle a nearly flawless match to do so.

157-Young won decisively.

165-Now that was simply a great match.  Joseph won the big 50/50 position that day.  But, Joseph was also unflappable.  Wrestling in Carver probably actually helped to further motivate him.  Having lost to him twice before that probably didn't help Alex's chances at winning 3 in a row much either.

184-Finally, 184 wasn't a toss up in any way other than on paper.  Brooks made Assad look very slow and flat-footed the entire match.

 

Of those 4, the only toss up I really see is 165 and that is taking a 3x NCAA FInalist and 2x Champ against a guy that inarguably has gone 6th, 7th and DNP.  One guy has proven that he LIVED off big time matches...

Penn State has a bunch of those guys in their line up right now. 

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Just now, TBar1977 said:

Penn State has a bunch of those guys in their line up right now. 

NONE of which are nearly as proven as Joseph.  At that point Joseph was a 3x Finalist having beaten Imart 2xs at NCAA's.  RBY has gone 8th and 1st. Lee has gone 5th, 5th and 1st.  Brooks and Starocci have wrestled at NCAA's once.  Not one of them beat an NCAA Champ, let alone twice, let alone the fact that he was a 4x Finalist.

Still if you read my predictions, of those 4, the only one I have losing is Starocci.  After them, who has LIVED off big time matches?  Hildebrandt hasn't.  Bartlett hasn't.  157 and 165 sure haven't.  Dean did it one time for Cornell, but did fall short to a guy he had beat before.  Kerkvliet, you can maybe site his age group world level accomplishments, but he has yet to do it for PSU...So, of the 5 you can argue your point with, I picked 4 of them to win!

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3 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

What of those 4 matches were actually toss ups as proven by the end of the year results.

133-DeSanto vs. RBY  Going into the match it probably applied.  But, no one was ready for the adjustment RBY made and no crowd in the planet was going to help DeSanto that day.  Since then,  RBY has proven to be the favorite that day and ever since.  That isn't to say that DeSanto can't beat him, but he would have to wrestle a nearly flawless match to do so.

157-Young won decisively.

165-Now that was simply a great match.  Joseph won the big 50/50 position that day.  But, Joseph was also unflappable.  Wrestling in Carver probably actually helped to further motivate him.  Having lost to him twice before that probably didn't help Alex's chances at winning 3 in a row much either.

184-Finally, 184 wasn't a toss up in any way other than on paper.  Brooks made Assad look very slow and flat-footed the entire match.

 

Of those 4, the only toss up I really see is 165 and that is taking a 3x NCAA FInalist and 2x Champ against a guy that inarguably has gone 6th, 7th and DNP.  One guy has proven that he LIVED off big time matches...

 

* I got one thing wrong when I said 133, 157, 165, 184. It should have been 133, 165, 174, 184. That said...

End of year results cannot be used to define a toss up prior to the result occurring. I was going by predictions made in the thread PRIOR to the match. Everything after the match creates biases that did not exist prior.

Examples from that thread:

133: This match is really a toss-up.  It always has been a tossup when the Desanto gas tank hasn't broken RBY.  With that said, RBY seems improved this year too with better go's.  Based on Desanto's motor and history, this is still Desanto's to lose, but it could go either way.  RBY could be ahead early, because his skill is better, imo.  Desanto's motor should pull out the win, but don't be surprised at a flip.  We'll go Desanto by dec. 

165: Not sure who to pick here.

174: hall vs Kemerer:hall by decision (wouldn’t be surprised if Kemerer won

184: Brooks did not look great last night but I do think he is better than Assad at 100%. Another one that can go either way.

While I have cherry picked statements (there are certainly some wild ones in there to counter with), the general tenor was Iowa was a clear favorite. Someone is getting Carvered.

Both wound up being true, but overstated. Iowa won, but by less than expected. Hall lost to Kemerer by 5, but it came to down to the very end.

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59 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Take off the glasses and just look at what I typed.  I didn't say I picked all those wins.  In fact, I listed my predictions in the next post.  But, you can't ignore it is in Carver and you have way too much slant.

DeSanto has had 2 close matches all season.  He is 11-0 with 7 TF's and 1 MD.  His last match he looked off late, but he was never remotely close to losing.

Eierman looks more like he is experimenting than a shell of himself.  He is trying to force positions and leaving himself so wide open he has had problems countering.  But, his effort is still there and the gas tank has been there well enough to gut out a couple of wins in the end.  He is still 11-0.

Berge hasn't wrestled a match since last year and wasn't even in the PSU room.

Kemerer DID win decisively actually.  He scored 2 different takedowns.  One off his own attack and the other off Starocci's.  7-2 with 2 takedowns to zero and back points is UNDENIABLY decisive. 

How does Dean's track record trump Warner's?  I say this as a big fan of the Dean family.  He is probably the one PSU guy I will cheer for over anyone but an MSU wrestler.  But, that doesn't mean I would automatically favor him up a weight having really wrestled no one at 197 but Norfleet.

Cass actually used his mat wrestling to bully Kerk.  Until I see that no longer being a factor, I don't see how you can't favor Cass.

 

With all the above said, it IS in Carver and that was a major point of my contention.  If you read later posts, I do say it would be much harder for Iowa to win, especially at NCAA's.  Sanderson's track record is just way too strong at NCAA's to ignore!

 

I’ve watched pretty much all of Iowas match this year and Eierman doesn’t look like he trying new positions, he looks like a guy going through the motions …ryan Jack and Parker filius get teched or pinned by Eierman any other year of his career …I would agree with the Berge factor if young didn’t look like a shell of himself (  he was never overly impressive) and looks miserable on the mat, that weight cut has to be brutal and if he married to any other woman in the world I think he would’ve moved on and not took this year of eligibility 

How is deans track record better ? He’s an ncaa finalist whose beaten Myles Martin and has 3 wins over ncaa champ drew foster and blanked ncaa finalist Bonocorsi, all before he started training with cael and friends …. Warners best career win is either against Brucki in carver or Jake Woodley…so yea Dean would definitely be the favorite, but Warner has heavy hips and I could see Dean getting too amped to wrestle at Iowa and Warner being able to ride and grind out a 3-2 win over a gassed Dean but I wouldn’t expect it 

you proved my point on cass, he crushed Kerk from top bc he had a major weight and strength advantage and Kerk was helpless , now they are almost the same weight and much closer in strength, I see both guys escaping fairly quickly and this coming down to a battle on their feet. 

Edited by Antitroll2828

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28 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

 

* I got one thing wrong when I said 133, 157, 165, 184. It should have been 133, 165, 174, 184. That said...

End of year results cannot be used to define a toss up prior to the result occurring. I was going by predictions made in the thread PRIOR to the match. Everything after the match creates biases that did not exist prior.

Examples from that thread:

133: This match is really a toss-up.  It always has been a tossup when the Desanto gas tank hasn't broken RBY.  With that said, RBY seems improved this year too with better go's.  Based on Desanto's motor and history, this is still Desanto's to lose, but it could go either way.  RBY could be ahead early, because his skill is better, imo.  Desanto's motor should pull out the win, but don't be surprised at a flip.  We'll go Desanto by dec. 

165: Not sure who to pick here.

174: hall vs Kemerer:hall by decision (wouldn’t be surprised if Kemerer won

184: Brooks did not look great last night but I do think he is better than Assad at 100%. Another one that can go either way.

While I have cherry picked statements (there are certainly some wild ones in there to counter with), the general tenor was Iowa was a clear favorite. Someone is getting Carvered.

Both wound up being true, but overstated. Iowa won, but by less than expected. Hall lost to Kemerer by 5, but it came to down to the very end.

You are using toss ups on paper to say Carver isn't an edge.  That just isn't fair to the argument unless you actually look at how those wrestlers showed their talent throughout that season.

RBY showed that he could essentially eliminate DeSanto's clear advantage in the ties.  DeSanto was clearly lost in that match and short of God himself coming down to help DeSanto, he wasn't winning that match no matter where it was wrestled.

Young we already covered, but can scratch that out now.

I conceded Joseph, but he is one of those type of guys that I don't think any environment would give someone the edge over him.

174 Carver DEFINITELY helped Kemerer and WRECKED Hall.  Hall went balls to the wall and burned himself out and Kemerer wrestled awesome.

184  Like I said before,  Brooks proved he was simply a much better wrestler than Assad in that match and throughout the season.

 

Again, the only match where Carver didn't make a difference for Iowa where it could have was Marinelli.  It absolutely helped Kemmerer and DeSanto and Assad weren't beating their opponents that day no matter where that match was wrestled.  PERIOD.

Let me add, to put some egg on my face, I absolutely thought DeSanto would beat RBY going into that match.  He had proven to be so much more physical and active in their prior matches.  I simply didn't see how RBY could negate his advantage in the ties and RBY wasn't going to simply wrestle from space because that had never really been his style.  Putting the arm back was ingenious and I never would have even considered it.

Edited by MSU158

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2 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

You are using toss ups on paper to say Carver isn't an edge.  That just isn't fair to the argument unless you actually look at how those wrestlers showed their talent throughout that season.

RBY showed that he could essentially eliminate DeSanto's clear advantage in the ties.  DeSanto was clearly lost in that match and short of God himself coming down to help DeSanto, he wasn't winning that match no matter where it was wrestled.

Young we already covered, but can scratch that out now.

I conceded Joseph, but he is one of those type of guys that I don't think any environment would give someone the edge over him.

174 Carver DEFINITELY helped Kemerer and WRECKED Hall.  Hall went balls to the wall and burned himself out and Kemerer wrestled awesome.

184  Like I said before,  Brooks proved he was simply a much better wrestler than Assad in that match and throughout the season.

 

Again, the only match where Carver didn't make a difference for Iowa where it could have was Marinelli.  It absolutely helped Kemmerer and DeSanto and Assad weren't beating their opponents that day no matter where that match was wrestled.  PERIOD.

While I appreciate you turning up the volume and spelling your punctuation, you are just using confirmation bias. The reality is that before we knew what we knew after the match, Brooks and RBY were considered toss ups. Try reading the statements from before, since you can't forget what you know after.

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5 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

 

Let me add, to put some egg on my face, I absolutely thought DeSanto would beat RBY going into that match.  He had proven to be so much more physical and active in their prior matches.  I simply didn't see how RBY could negate his advantage in the ties and RBY wasn't going to simply wrestle from space because that had never really been his style.  Putting the arm back was ingenious and I never would have even considered it.

Rby started the arm behind the back late in their ncaa match up and ended up taking Desanto down atleast twice late in the match and ended up losing 12-8 , before the adjustment he was getting bullied 

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1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

While I appreciate you turning up the volume and spelling your punctuation, you are just using confirmation bias. The reality is that before we knew what we knew after the match, Brooks and RBY were considered toss ups. Try reading the statements from before, since you can't forget what you know after.

I am sorry, but it is a VERY disingenuous argument.  Early rankings don't mean a ton if they don't end up proving themselves when they matter.  Sort of like Clemson in football this year.  In hindsight, are you really saying that Georgia vs. Clemson was a tossup after seeing how much better Georgia actually proved themselves to be?

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5 minutes ago, Antitroll2828 said:

Rby started the arm behind the back late in their ncaa match up and ended up taking Desanto down atleast twice late in the match and ended up losing 12-8 , before the adjustment he was getting bullied 

I definitely didn't notice it then, at least not to the degree that I thought it could be implemented as a full match tactic that effectively.  I definitely would have thought it would have opened him up to other attacks, but it really only opened up the lefty single, which RBY is great at defending and DeSanto has proven not so good at seamlessly finishing.  It has proven to be a masterful strategy that only someone as quick and talented as RBY could pull off.

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Based on what I have seen Iowa has no shot. Missing their leader and the rest of the team is looking rough. PSU looking like a well oiled machine and Iowa like a 79 Pinto.

125- Not much data to go off right now but would have to give the edge to the experienced Hildebrandt.

133- RBY all day. Desanto won by going pedal to the metal all match vs Fr. RBY. Since then he has tried to be more calculated and it's not his game. 

141- to quote flap, Eierman looks like he couldn't pull a sick whore off a piss pot. Lee by 5-8.

149- pretty even but Bartlett more talented. 

157- Young over anyone but Berge. Toss up if Berge.

165- Marinelli by decision over Edsel or Berge. Not sure he could major either.

174- Cstar looks outstanding. Kem too old and a bad shoulder to boot. Decision PSU.

184- Assad will be doing well to keep it to 3.

197- Dean likely to score 4 or more points. Can't see Warner topping that. 

285- Kerk weighing almost the same as Cass now. The 20 pounds Cass lost will do him in as Kerk is superior otherwise. 

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I have a feeling Iowa will come out looking a lot better then they have been, whether its because of how they have been training, carver, or just pure motivation. I would not be suprised by any result from this dual outside of a shut out. Writing off Iowa seems pretty premature, when the end goal is to peak for nationals, and not some random meets in December/early January. For all we know Iowa was having full blown practices before matches against teams they heavily overmatched, and it lead to less then ideal results on the mat.

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