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1 hour ago, dman115 said:

But natural immunity is stupid... <eye roll>

It used to be, but in the near future those who once called it stupid will do an about face on the subject. If there is one thing yesterday's hearings illustrated (along with the prior ones)  is that if they didn't have multiple sets of moving goal posts they'd have no goal posts at all. Loved the imagery of Walensky double masked while speaking and Fauci not masked at all while speaking. 

EDIT: Btw, go read the front page of Bloomberg News today. European epidemiologists are warning about never ending booster shots wearing down a person's immunity. Europe is moving from a pandemic model to an endemic model. That will come here, and the policies of fear will have to be left to the dustbin of history. Those articles are close to the ones on the 40 year high in inflation and the other ones where Bloomberg opinion writers penned these headlines:

Opinion

Edited by TBar1977

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42 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

It used to be, but in the near future those who once called it stupid will do an about face on the subject. If there is one thing yesterday's hearings illustrated (along with the prior ones)  is that if they didn't have multiple sets of moving goal posts they'd have no goal posts at all. Loved the imagery of Walensky double masked while speaking and Fauci not masked at all while speaking. 

EDIT: Btw, go read the front page of Bloomberg News today. European epidemiologists are warning about never ending booster shots wearing down a person's immunity. Europe is moving from a pandemic model to an endemic model. That will come here, and the policies of fear will have to be left to the dustbin of history. Those articles are close to the ones on the 40 year high in inflation and the other ones where Bloomberg opinion writers penned these headlines:

Opinion

Wait for the attack on your news sources Tbar!!  LOL  Still can't believe someone called natural immunity stupid...crazy world we live in.

Wonder what some on here will do when all the fear mongering stops, and triple vaccination shots aren't recommended any longer??

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3 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Why does it have to apply to all cases?  Some Iowa guys are more pumped up by the crowd, and some visiting team guys get more nervous from the crowd compared to others.

I’d probably also put often getting favorable calls into the Carver effect, which can vary by ref.

Because when you start to list exceptions and noting that things vary by ref, then the rule looks more like randomness with some cherry picked examples.

Not that I am innocent on the cherry picked examples.

On a side note, boy did this thread go sideways while I was away.

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46 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

It used to be, but in the near future those who once called it stupid will do an about face on the subject. If there is one thing yesterday's hearings illustrated (along with the prior ones)  is that if they didn't have multiple sets of moving goal posts they'd have no goal posts at all. Loved the imagery of Walensky double masked while speaking and Fauci not masked at all while speaking. 

EDIT: Btw, go read the front page of Bloomberg News today. European epidemiologists are warning about never ending booster shots wearing down a person's immunity. Europe is moving from a pandemic model to an endemic model. That will come here, and the policies of fear will have to be left to the dustbin of history. Those articles are close to the ones on the 40 year high in inflation and the other ones where Bloomberg opinion writers penned these headlines:

Opinion

 

47 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

It used to be, but in the near future those who once called it stupid will do an about face on the subject. If there is one thing yesterday's hearings illustrated (along with the prior ones)  is that if they didn't have multiple sets of moving goal posts they'd have no goal posts at all. Loved the imagery of Walensky double masked while speaking and Fauci not masked at all while speaking. 

EDIT: Btw, go read the front page of Bloomberg News today. European epidemiologists are warning about never ending booster shots wearing down a person's immunity. Europe is moving from a pandemic model to an endemic model. That will come here, and the policies of fear will have to be left to the dustbin of history. Those articles are close to the ones on the 40 year high in inflation and the other ones where Bloomberg opinion writers penned these headlines:

Opinion

I honestly think the goalposts have moved so many times because the human body and its reaction to disease, drugs, whatever is incredibly complex.  Too complex to completely understand at this point in human science.  (We may never completely understand it??)   I also believe that the vast majority of the medical community has the best interests of the public in mind.  I also believe that Big Pharma is beyond reprehensible when it comes to pushing drugs on the public, as you see in the endless tv ads for drugs and the opioid epidemic.

Is natural immunity better than vaxing?  I hope/suspect so.  I'm just afraid many, many souls could be lost in the process.  I also realize that the following is not an exact analogy with Covid for a few reasons.  I also think that our government is probably being overly cautious, but that's probably better than being not cautious enough.  I think we're all "flying blind" to some extent.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/05/05/columbus-brought-measles-new-world-it-was-disaster-native-americans/

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13 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

 

I honestly think the goalposts have moved so many times because the human body and its reaction to disease, drugs, whatever is incredibly complex.  Too complex to completely understand at this point in human science.  (We may never completely understand it??)   I also believe that the vast majority of the medical community has the best interests of the public in mind.  I also believe that Big Pharma is beyond reprehensible when it comes to pushing drugs on the public, as you see in the endless tv ads for drugs and the opioid epidemic.

 

Agreed.

There are a bunch of dummies who insist it's a conspiracy and not only that, but that it is a global conspiracy to boot...

Edited by Mphillips

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I too think that the majority of the medical community does have the best interest of the public in mind.  BUT...politicians and pseudo medical expert politicians absolutely do not!  

And @Mphillips I think there are dummies out there who insist this whole thing is a conspiracy, but there isn't a "bunch".  I have yet to read on here that anyone thinks the virus is a conspiracy.  People have claimed others think that way just because they had a different opinion than someone, but no one said it was a total conspiracy and the virus isn't real or serious.  It's the same as when people will claim someone to be anti-vax just because they think someone should have the freedom to make the choice to get the jab or not.

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59 minutes ago, dman115 said:

Wait for the attack on your news sources Tbar!!  LOL  Still can't believe someone called natural immunity stupid...crazy world we live in.

Wonder what some on here will do when all the fear mongering stops, and triple vaccination shots aren't recommended any longer??

Yeah, because Bloomberg is some whacky right wing lunatic fringe publication. 

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53 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

I honestly think the goalposts have moved so many times because the human body and its reaction to disease, drugs, whatever is incredibly complex.  Too complex to completely understand at this point in human science.  (We may never completely understand it??)  

Still, though, some things we do understand and have understood for hundreds of years seem to be panning out as the medical community could have and many did predict. Virus's weaken. People's immunity kicks in. Life goes on and we deal with it. All of this IS happening. 

 

 

53 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

I also believe that the vast majority of the medical community has the best interests of the public in mind.  I also believe that Big Pharma is beyond reprehensible when it comes to pushing drugs on the public, as you see in the endless tv ads for drugs and the opioid epidemic.

Is natural immunity better than vaxing?  I hope/suspect so.  I'm just afraid many, many souls could be lost in the process.  I also realize that the following is not an exact analogy with Covid for a few reasons.  I also think that our government is probably being overly cautious, but that's probably better than being not cautious enough.  I think we're all "flying blind" to some extent.

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/05/05/columbus-brought-measles-new-world-it-was-disaster-native-americans/

40 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Agreed.

There are a bunch of dummies who insist it's a conspiracy and not only that, but that it is a global conspiracy to boot...

 

There are loads of conspiracy theories, Mphillips, that is for sure. But there are also not enough of the right questions being asked imo. 

BernieP, I agree with you that the vast majority of  the medical community has the best interest of the public in mind. I think this is so worldwide. I still believe in the hippocratic oath. But it doesn't help when the messaging becomes mixed and much of it seems to lack any common sense. Did/do these Covid Quarantine/Interment facilities work? How could any sound thinking person believe so when Omicron cases have swept the entire globe? Lock down a few hundred people here or there and not one thing changes in the big scheme of things.

They need to try other things, because their response right now is not working. When we have therapies at our disposal, why is the answer to every question to mask up and take another vaccine shot? Especially in light of recent medical consensus in Europe starting to develop that the shots themselves at such short intervals will weaken immune systems? 

Edited by TBar1977

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29 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

Important to realize...Regardless of what team's uniform they're wearing.

Speaking of uniforms... I can't wait to see PSU/Iowa!

100000% agree...it doesn't matter what the team's uniform is they're wearing

Yes....can't wait for PSU/Iowa!  Will be one of the best duals of the year so far...to bad Lee is out, even though I'd like Iowa to loose.  :)

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21 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Still, though, some things we do understand and have understood for hundreds of years seem to be panning out as the medical community could have and many did predict. Virus's weaken. People's immunity kicks in. Life goes on and we deal with it. All of this IS happening. 

 

 

 

There are loads of conspiracy theories, Mphillips, that is for sure. But there are also not enough of the right questions being asked imo. 

BernieP, I agree with you that the vast majority of  the medical community has the best interest of the public in mind. I think this is so worldwide. I still believe in the hippocratic oath. But it doesn't help when the messaging becomes mixed and much of it seems to lack any common sense. Did/do these Covid Quarantine/Interment facilities work? How could any sound thinking person believe so when Omicron cases have swept the entire globe? Lock down a few hundred people here or there and not one thing changes in the big scheme of things.

They need to try other things, because their response right now is not working. When we have therapies at our disposal, why is the answer to every question to mask up and take another vaccine shot? Especially in light of recent medical consensus in Europe starting to develop that the shots themselves at such short intervals will weaken immune systems? 

Spot on!!

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29 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

There are loads of conspiracy theories, Mphillips, that is for sure. But there are also not enough of the right questions being asked imo. 

They need to try other things, because their response right now is not working. When we have therapies at our disposal, why is the answer to every question to mask up and take another vaccine shot? Especially in light of recent medical consensus in Europe starting to develop that the shots themselves at such short intervals will weaken immune systems? 

Isn't that the scientific method that folks bellyache about? Not being argumentative or ironic. ;)

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1 hour ago, BerniePragle said:

Is natural immunity better than vaxing?  I hope/suspect so.  

I hope so for the unvaxxed but suspect not.

Why? Do we think that all of those unvaxxed currently hospitalized never caught it before (likely asymptomatic) given their likelihood of not mitigating.

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@TBar1977

I'm 95% with you.  (I always keep a little in reserve.  You never know.)  I'm a 69 year old guy who takes no drugs, only a few vitamins and fish oil tablets.  Do they help?  I don't know, but it's easier than arguing with my wife about them, Lol.  I firmly believe in the body's ability to take care of itself.  Hence, your comment about "over-vaxing" may make sense... But, there are times the body needs help, hence the screws in my left leg, scars on both knees, and stitches here and there.
I guess what I'm trying to say, to quote a good friend, I feel strongly both ways.  Anyway, my wife and I are both retired, and I can guarantee you this is not what we had in mind.  Hopefully, we can get on the other side of this, one way or the other (or both).  Wishing you health and peace.

Edited by BerniePragle

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1 hour ago, dman115 said:

I too think that the majority of the medical community does have the best interest of the public in mind.  BUT...politicians and pseudo medical expert politicians absolutely do not!  

And @Mphillips I think there are dummies out there who insist this whole thing is a conspiracy, but there isn't a "bunch".  I have yet to read on here that anyone thinks the virus is a conspiracy.  People have claimed others think that way just because they had a different opinion than someone, but no one said it was a total conspiracy and the virus isn't real or serious It's the same as when people will claim someone to be anti-vax just because they think someone should have the freedom to make the choice to get the jab or not.

Not interested in an argument. If, a "bunch" is incorrect than so is, "no one."

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22 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

Isn't that the scientific method that folks bellyache about? Not being argumentative or ironic. ;)

I think that people feel they keep coming back to the same single tool in the toolbox. 

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18 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

@TBar1977

I'm 95% with you.  (I always keep a little in reserve.  You never know.)  I'm a 69 year old guy who takes no drugs, only a few vitamins and fish oil tablets.  Do they help?  I don't know, but it's easier than arguing with my wife about them, Lol.  I firmly believe in the body's ability to take care of itself.  Hence, your comment about "over-vaxing" may make sense... But, there are times the body needs help, hence the screws in my left leg, scars on both knees, and stitches here and there.
I guess what I'm trying to say, to quote a good friend, I feel strongly both ways.  Anyway, my wife and I are both retired, and I can guarantee you this is not what we had in mind.  Hopefully, we can get on the other side of this, one way or the other (or both).  Wishing you health and peace.

We have much in common, Bernie. My wife likes to nag me a little too, but I suspect for all the right reasons. 

Just one clarification. Not my view because I know the answers, just quoting some news out of Europe that seems to make sense to me. 

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There aren't moving goalposts. The goal has always been to try to keep people from dying. The problem is there is not a straightforward path to getting there, and the path changes as we learn new information. Right now, masks and vaccines are the best tools we have. But that is certainly not the only tool that is being developed. Sitting back and letting millions of people die without trying anything was never an option, even if this virus becoming endemic was inevitable.

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4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

We have much in common, Bernie. My wife likes to nag me a little too, but I suspect for all the right reasons. 

Just one clarification. Not my view because I know the answers, just quoting some news out of Europe that seems to make sense to me. 

Let me clarify something for you!  I'm sure she nags you for all the right reasons.  That's also something we have in common.

Also, we're both smart enough to know there's a lot we don't know.  Hence we both use the "makes sense" phrase.  That's the best we got.

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45 minutes ago, Crotalus said:

There aren't moving goalposts. The goal has always been to try to keep people from dying. The problem is there is not a straightforward path to getting there, and the path changes as we learn new information. Right now, masks and vaccines are the best tools we have. But that is certainly not the only tool that is being developed. Sitting back and letting millions of people die without trying anything was never an option, even if this virus becoming endemic was inevitable.

There are moving goalposts. In the run up to the election Biden and Fauci both said "No Covid 19 Vaccine Mandate". In 2021 that became "Yes, Covid 19 Vaccine Mandate". Regardless of their reasons, that is the definition of a moving goalpost. 

https://thefederalist.com/2021/09/10/flashback-biden-administration-promised-it-wouldnt-mandate-covid-19-vaccine/

And I feel as though I always need to say this because of how these things go. I am no anti vaxxer. I am double vaxxed and boosted. Everyone in my family is such. And I even have a dear friend who is fortunate that his own personal anti vax sentiment did not do him in. But this is all beside the point. 

The point is that they have said one thing at one time, and then another thing at other times. This double speak and shifting policy amid the backdrop of all the other problems this country is facing leads those on the edge to recoil, not to embrace. So they are getting the exact opposite reaction they claim to want. 

They also treat members of groups differently. The original vaccine mandate for employers with greater than 1000 employees came with a carve out for postal workers. What? Now we see talk of treating the sick partly on the basis of race. What? That seems sure to end up in the courts. 

Now we have many health systems who are firing nurses because they refused the vaccine. Most of those nurses are young women in the 20s and 30s. The theory is that their refusal to take the vaccine could lead to them contracting Covid 19 and then transmitting it to patients. But at the same exact time we see California creating a new mandate allowing hospitals to require some Covid Infected workers back onto the job. So certain workers are fired because they might get Covid while other workers in the same job are forced top work even though they have Covid. 

And they wonder why people have lost trust in them.  

https://news.yahoo.com/california-went-mandating-vaccines-forcing-132241327.html

 

 

Edited by TBar1977

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22 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

There are moving goalposts. In the run up to the election Biden and Fauci both said "No Covid 19 Vaccine Mandate". In 2021 that became "Yes, Covid 19 Vaccine Mandate". Regardless of their reasons, that is the definition of a moving goalpost. 

Would the situations changing be the reasoning behind changing what was said a year prior?

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16 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Oh, it exists to varying degrees in some sports, but to call the Carver Effect something as plain Jane as a simple home court advantage is a bit of an insult to its mythology.

I've been a fan before Carver opened.

It is as simple as a home court advantage.  And the advantage is real.  

Perhaps this mythology you speak of exists and is greater primarily with those outside the Iowa fan base.

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16 hours ago, ionel said:

And why is natural immunity stupid especially when the shot is not preventing spread of the new variant?

Naturally immunity isn't stupid - that's not what I said. 

On 1/11/2022 at 9:36 PM, Lurker said:

I saw something today but don’t know if true, NCAA is accepting a past case of covid as fully vaccinated, in other words acknowledging natural immunity as same as vaccinated. If nothing else can cut down time to return. 

This idea that having a past case of Covid is the same as being fully vaccinated is what I was referring to. The NCAA would be over-the-top stupid to adopt that position.

That being said, Lurker did use the disclaimer "don't know if true'. So, the good news is that we don't know that the NCAA actually subscribes to that idea. Hopefully just a rumor.

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