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POLL: Most egregious form of "stall ride"?

Most egregious form of "stall ride"  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. What is the most egregious form of "stall ride"?

    • Tony Nelson spiral ride of death
    • Double boots a la Zain
    • Kyle Dake claw
    • Penn State ankle pinch
    • Other (specify in your post)


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10 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Do you not think it is fundamentally a stall ride?  Hey, I actually give PSU a ton of credit for how well they use it knowing how unlikely it is to be called for it.  But, that doesn't mean it isn't a stall ride how it is used and I would say the same if Rayvon Foley was using it or Spencer Lee...

They use it because it is not a stall ride. We have gone over this b4. As long as PSU is working to improve they are not stalling. If you try to put the opponents ankle off limits, then what's next? You could work your way thru the entire human anatomy.

This is like Iowa fans thinking holding an arm back, something as an Iowa fan you mentioned just today, is stalling. You didn't call it stalling today, but you know how Iowa fans went batty when RBY did this and it worked. If pulling an arm back and disallowing your opponent to easily grab it is stalling, then why isn't pulling your leg back to prevent your opponent from easily getting to it also stalling? You see how this goes?

Not stalling. 

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2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

They use it because it is not a stall ride. We have gone over this b4. As long as PSU is working to improve they are not stalling. If you try to put the opponents ankle off limits, then what's next? You could work your way thru the entire human anatomy.

This is like Iowa fans thinking holding an arm back, something as an Iowa fan you mentioned just today, is stalling. You didn't call it stalling today, but you know how Iowa fans went batty when RBY did this and it worked. If pulling an arm back and disallowing your opponent to easily grab it is stalling, then why isn't pulling your leg back to prevent your opponent from easily getting to it also stalling? You see how this goes?

Not stalling. 

The arm back is a hard one for me.  At certain points it was stalling.  But, to me so was Burroughs back stepping to get you to chase before immediately double legging you to the mat.  It may be a set up, but it is also CLEARLY not trying to engage your opponent to get them into a position to your advantage.  Both, can and often are on par with the 4 point stance.  I don't care if you are using them to set up and score from.  WHILE you are doing it, you aren't actively wrestling.  By definition, you are stalling. 

But, with that said RBY, Burroughs and Ferrari are proven wrestlers that get away with it because they are so good overall.  This is no different with PSU and the ankle ride.  If you think they are actively improving position while sitting on an ankle, there is no point talking wrestling with you, because it just isn't true.  Now it is a tactic like the above to bait you into forcing a position they can benefit from, but it isn't actively pursuing better positioning and that is EQUALLY true of all 4 positions I listed with some really good NCAA Champs using these positions to perfection.

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13 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

The Hawkeye tight-waist, push-the-elbow-away, head-in-armpit, butt-in-the-air, drive-foward, e.g. the one Borshel used on Henrich in the semis.

Borschel scored quite a few points in that match to come back late and win.  He didn't exactly have much time in that match to stall...

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50 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

He won on riding time.

Here is the match. He ended up with just over a minute of riding time and Henrich was actually called for stalling on bottom in the 2nd.  Most of what you called stalling in the 3rd, Borschel actually had a two on one tilt and Henrich went full belly out to stop that and was 100% out of gas. 
 

I don’t see how that ride could be called stalling, let alone “most egregious”. 
 

https://m.facebook.com/ObsessedAboutNCAAWrestling/videos/wildmatch-2010-ncaa-semis-174-2-borschel-vs-3-henrich/844531122370641/

 

 

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2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

The arm back is a hard one for me.  At certain points it was stalling.  But, to me so was Burroughs back stepping to get you to chase before immediately double legging you to the mat.  It may be a set up, but it is also CLEARLY not trying to engage your opponent to get them into a position to your advantage.  Both, can and often are on par with the 4 point stance.  I don't care if you are using them to set up and score from.  WHILE you are doing it, you aren't actively wrestling.  By definition, you are stalling. 

But, with that said RBY, Burroughs and Ferrari are proven wrestlers that get away with it because they are so good overall.  This is no different with PSU and the ankle ride.  If you think they are actively improving position while sitting on an ankle, there is no point talking wrestling with you, because it just isn't true.  Now it is a tactic like the above to bait you into forcing a position they can benefit from, but it isn't actively pursuing better positioning and that is EQUALLY true of all 4 positions I listed with some really good NCAA Champs using these positions to perfection.

Iowa fans, you included, were always on Mark Hall for what you claim is stalling via sitting on the ankle. I will grant you Hall's entire career in a PSU singlet to show me a match where he sits on the ankle and does not work to improve. The stage is yours. Show me such a match. 

Edited by TBar1977

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7 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Iowa fans, you included, were always on Mark Hall for what you claim is stalling via sitting on the ankle. I will grant you Hall's entire career in a PSU singlet to show me a match where he sits on the ankle and does not work to improve. The stage is yours. Show me such a match. 

TBarr moved to Missouri, who knew?  ;)

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2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

The Hawkeye tight-waist, push-the-elbow-away, head-in-armpit, butt-in-the-air, drive-foward, e.g. the one Borshel used on Henrich in the semis.

Spencer Lee uses the butt in the air head in the armpit technique too, but he is working to improve from there and almost always does so. End result being a TF in most cases. 

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37 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Iowa fans, you included, were always on Mark Hall for what you claim is stalling via sitting on the ankle. I will grant you Hall's entire career in a PSU singlet to show me a match where he sits on the ankle and does not work to improve. The stage is yours. Show me such a match. 

I have a short memory but I don't recall Hall sitting on the ankle that much.  IIRC RBY and Starocci are probably the biggest offenders I've seen.

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24 minutes ago, Mr. Poopy butthole said:

Haha some of these great. Just want to point out that OP was asking about stall rides specifically

So you are saying we can't vote -   ▪︎slow bet payment

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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59 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I have a short memory but I don't recall Hall sitting on the ankle that much.  IIRC RBY and Starocci are probably the biggest offenders I've seen.

Ahh, let's move the goal post from Mark Hall, one of the Most Dominant wrestlers when he was in the NCAA to Carter Starocci and RBY, two of the Most Dominant wrestlers in the NCAA right now. 

How do they keep winning by bonus, more than almost all others in the NCAA, without working to improve? Can you Show Me?

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4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Ahh, let's move the goal post from Mark Hall, one of the Most Dominant wrestlers when he was in the NCAA to Carter Starocci and RBY, two of the Most Dominant wrestlers in the NCAA right now. 

How do they keep winning by bonus, more than almost all others in the NCAA, without working to improve? Can you Show Me?

I don't think being hella dominant precludes a wrestler from stalling. I think every wrestler "stalls" at some point. Some more than others and a select few practically make a living out of it. 

To build off of your example, Spencer Lee undoubtedly employed a stall ride during parts of his match against Picc in 2020 (letting Picc get to his feet and almost completely away before shooting in for a single). Obviously I wouldnt label him as a staller but I think it would be great if that stall ride was penalized appropriately so that we could see more awesome and "real" wrestling.

RBY is a great wrestler who hits stuff I've never seen before. Generally he's always looking to score more points but that doesn't mean that the sh!t he pulled against Gross in the dual wasn't... Well, gross and undeniably a stall ride. He might not stall often but again wouldn't it be awesome if that option wasn't even available? I think we would all enjoy seeing more wrestling and less stalling and for me sitting on the ankle is definitely a stall.

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40 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Ahh, let's move the goal post from Mark Hall, one of the Most Dominant wrestlers when he was in the NCAA to Carter Starocci and RBY, two of the Most Dominant wrestlers in the NCAA right now. 

How do they keep winning by bonus, more than almost all others in the NCAA, without working to improve? Can you Show Me?

Takedowns.

And I think you were the only one that brought up Hall?

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13 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Ahh, let's move the goal post from Mark Hall, one of the Most Dominant wrestlers when he was in the NCAA to Carter Starocci and RBY, two of the Most Dominant wrestlers in the NCAA right now. 

How do they keep winning by bonus, more than almost all others in the NCAA, without working to improve? Can you Show Me?

 

12 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Takedowns.

And I think you were the only one that brought up Hall?

One, I brought up Hall because he was the one time poster child for the HR crowd and this "sitting on the ankle" narrative that seemingly every official in wrestling did not ever call on him or any other PSU wrestler. 

Two, if the PSU wrestlers are getting takedowns they are not stalling.  

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13 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

One, I brought up Hall because he was the one time poster child for the HR crowd and this "sitting on the ankle" narrative that seemingly every official in wrestling did not ever call on him or any other PSU wrestler. 

Two, if the PSU wrestlers are getting takedowns they are not stalling.  

Like I said, I don't recall Hall sitting on the ankle a lot.  Could be wrong.

Correct, they don't stall from neutral (or bottom) usually.  They do often stall on top though.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Like I said, I don't recall Hall sitting on the ankle a lot.  Could be wrong.

Correct, they don't stall from neutral (or bottom) usually.  They do often stall on top though.

Show Me. Show me some of these matches. Show me where PSU wrestlers do what you claim without working to improve. 

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11 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Show Me. Show me some of these matches. Show me where PSU wrestlers do what you claim without working to improve. 

Here's one example I was able to find pretty quickly. Not every criticism against a PSU wrestler needs to be taken as a slight against your mother. RBY is a fantastic wrestler, as is Starocci, and anyone able to break in to PSU's starting lineup (except maybe at 125). But this is stalling, and was rightly called so in this example, but it often isn't. This is not an attempt to work to improve.
 

 

 

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