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Uwwdoc

Lineup for US team for the 12th Feb showdown vs Iran

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7 minutes ago, Uwwdoc said:

I agree with this. Unless there was a big cash incentive, there is more to lose and little to gain. I would probably put Zare as slight favourite over him tbh.

Why would you favor Zare? Was he in the Olympics? If so, how did he do?

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7 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Why would you favor Zare? Was he in the Olympics? If so, how did he do?

No need for the sarcastic tone buddy. The results in Tokyo Olympics and Oslo World Championships are clear. If we go by the logic you are implying then we can say the same about Taylor/Yazdani, but Oslo showed that things can change.

I think it's close, but I favour the Zare that was at Oslo over Tokyo Gable. But it's a great match that we will probably never see.

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3 minutes ago, Uwwdoc said:

No need for the sarcastic tone buddy. The results in Tokyo Olympics and Oslo World Championships are clear. If we go by the logic you are implying then we can say the same about Taylor/Yazdani, but Oslo showed that things can change.

I think it's close, but I favour the Zare that was at Oslo over Tokyo Gable. But it's a great match that we will probably never see.

I am not being sarcastic. I now see that Zare took bronze. Gable took gold. So why favor Zare?

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26 minutes ago, NJDan said:

I am not being sarcastic. I now see that Zare took bronze. Gable took gold. So why favor Zare?

I thought you were already aware of the Tokyo results.

Just my opinion, even pre-Olympics I thought if they would face each other stylistically Zare would be able to control him with the underhook. I was also more impressed with the performances of Zare over Taha and Geno in Oslo, than Gable's over the same 2 in Tokyo, even if Gable's gold medal win was more dramatic. I can completely understand if someone favoured Gable to win in a match up too, but this is my own opinion.

Just an opinion, again Gable wasn't in Oslo so we never got to see them wrestle, but just saying "Gable got gold, Zare bronze" inferring that Zare could not possibly be favoured to win in the match up is not something I agree with. Taylor/Yazdani from Tokyo to Oslo showed that.

Edited by Uwwdoc

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Given Gables decision to move to WWE, I think Gable is yesterday's news when it comes to freestyle wrestling but hopefully tomorrow's news for WWE. Sure he won gold in the Olympics but no show at Oslo and no show for this match up despite all the rhetoric of tell Zare I am pulling up etc.

Zare wants to to concentrate on Freestyle wrestling and Gable wants to concentrate on a career in WWE. Is there really more to it than that now when it comes to relating these two together?

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It wasn't clear before worlds who would win 125 kg at Oslo. 

Zare had just lost to Geno and a lot of people thought Taha, who was always had a good match up stylistically against Geno, was in it too. 

Then it looks like Zare who is still very young jumped levels and beat them both, which  can happen at his age. 

 

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58 minutes ago, wrestlingphish said:

Also keep in mind that there was a misapplication of the rules that allowed a restart for Gable in the closing seconds that should not have happened. No restart, no last second heroics, no gold medal. Gable and Zare would both have had one loss to the same wrestler. 

To be fair I believe it was posted here that the UWW officials acknowledged that they made a mistake in the scoring and Gable should have been awarded 4 on the edge. 

 

Interesting match, though. Zare definitely beat Geno more convincingly but had a harder time with Akgul than Gable did. And of course he lost to the version of Geno that Gable beat.

 

I suppose I would slightly favour Zare  because one of Gable's greatest strengths that I saw in the Olympics is countering his opponent's shots, and Zare rarely shoots and likely never would on Steveson, so that takes that away. But it's not a confident pick. 

 

Zare/Steveson is likely the best match in wrestling right now if someone could make it. Sadulaev/Snyder is not interesting anymore IMO, Taylor/Yazdani is great but we have seen it 4 times, then you have some others like Otoguro and Rashidov. 

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15 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

What about calling out Zare and then not backing it up. Do think it’s something else other than scared to lose?

You are aware the Olympics happened, yes?  He backed it up when it mattered most.  Period.

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22 hours ago, Eagle26 said:


Well, that wouldn’t be the first bet I lost (hence the sig lol). But I think the point still stands that somebody is getting a benefit of seeing their greatest rival and it’s just not worth that risk to me. I agree it’s probably Yaz. Are you sure though that Yaz accepted thinking DT would be there? He may have accepted conditionally based on that? Just a thought, I have no idea. And just to be clear, I don’t think this is remotely similar to “ducking” so I’m not trying to say either one is scared to compete


If I need to know anything about wrestling or sports, I ask@ShakaAloha because he knows more than me.

I agree with you, neither of these guys are ducking.  They've wrestled each other 4x.

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I always find it funny that people usually think one guy is improving while the guy that has beaten him isn't and is just staying at the same level...never understood it...and a lot of people do it.  Gable is the Olympic champion...and if he wanted to...could continue to focus on freestyle and...gasp...probably improve.  

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5 hours ago, Uwwdoc said:

I thought you were already aware of the Tokyo results.

Just my opinion, even pre-Olympics I thought if they would face each other stylistically Zare would be able to control him with the underhook. I was also more impressed with the performances of Zare over Taha and Geno in Oslo, than Gable's over the same 2 in Tokyo, even if Gable's gold medal win was more dramatic. I can completely understand if someone favoured Gable to win in a match up too, but this is my own opinion.

Just an opinion, again Gable wasn't in Oslo so we never got to see them wrestle, but just saying "Gable got gold, Zare bronze" inferring that Zare could not possibly be favoured to win in the match up is not something I agree with. Taylor/Yazdani from Tokyo to Oslo showed that.

Except Taylor was favored over Yazdani in Oslo.  The reverse happening doesn't change that.  Nor does it make Zare favored over the guy who finished ahead of him in the biggest tournament of the year.  Steveson could be favored, or you could make the argument it's a tossup.  I don't see where you're coming from to make Zare a favorite.  

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52 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Except Taylor was favored over Yazdani in Oslo.  The reverse happening doesn't change that.  Nor does it make Zare favored over the guy who finished ahead of him in the biggest tournament of the year.  Steveson could be favored, or you could make the argument it's a tossup.  I don't see where you're coming from to make Zare a favorite.  

We aren't talking betting odds here, I made a personal prediction of who I would favour to win. Even you say it's a toss up but then you don't see how Zare could be a slight favourite? I said I would slightly favour him, I'm surprised that it's proving to be such a talking point. I don't think it's that controversial.

I think you can build a case for both:

-Zare world champion beat Geno 7-2 (2-1 h2h) if I remember correctly in a much more dominant display than Gable. Had a great tournament when he beat Taha and Gwiz in great displays. Gable since has signed with WWE, focus seems to be shifted elsewhere as to pre Olympics, and seems to be 'done' with international wrestling. This would be my case for Zare. Stylistically I  also think Gable would have more trouble with Zare than Taha and Geno.

-Gable is the Olympic Champ. Great showing against Taha. Zare finished 3rd in said tournament. 

Ultimately I don't think the match will ever happen and Zare will probably be number 1 until some other young buck comes and give him a run for his money.

Edited by Uwwdoc

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24 minutes ago, Uwwdoc said:

We aren't talking betting odds here, I made a personal prediction of who I would favour to win. Even you say it's a toss up but then you don't see how Zare could be a slight favourite? I said I would slightly favour him, I'm surprised that it's proving to be such a talking point. I don't think it's that controversial.

I think you can build a case for both:

-Zare world champion beat Geno 7-2 (2-1 h2h) if I remember correctly in a much more dominant display than Gable. Had a great tournament when he beat Taha and Gwiz in great displays. Gable since has signed with WWE, focus seems to be shifted elsewhere as to pre Olympics, and seems to be 'done' with international wrestling. This would be my case for Zare. Stylistically I  also think Gable would have more trouble with Zare than Taha and Geno.

-Gable is the Olympic Champ. Great showing against Taha. Zare finished 3rd in said tournament. 

Ultimately I don't think the match will ever happen and Zare will probably be number 1 until some other young buck comes and give him a run for his money.

If you are saying you predict a Zare win, then awesome.  But the word favored has an actual meaning.

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1 hour ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

At some point if you continue to not show up you can’t consider yourself the heavyweight champ. Especially when this match was booked he called Zare out.

I agree.  I don't think that point is 6 months after the Olympics.  Especially for a guy still in college. 

I am guessing lots of people are viewing this non-match through their distaste for Gable's future career plans (a distaste I share).  

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2 hours ago, Uwwdoc said:

We aren't talking betting odds here, I made a personal prediction of who I would favour to win. Even you say it's a toss up but then you don't see how Zare could be a slight favourite? I said I would slightly favour him, I'm surprised that it's proving to be such a talking point. I don't think it's that controversial.

I think you can build a case for both:

-Zare world champion beat Geno 7-2 (2-1 h2h) if I remember correctly in a much more dominant display than Gable. Had a great tournament when he beat Taha and Gwiz in great displays. Gable since has signed with WWE, focus seems to be shifted elsewhere as to pre Olympics, and seems to be 'done' with international wrestling. This would be my case for Zare. Stylistically I  also think Gable would have more trouble with Zare than Taha and Geno.

-Gable is the Olympic Champ. Great showing against Taha. Zare finished 3rd in said tournament. 

Ultimately I don't think the match will ever happen and Zare will probably be number 1 until some other young buck comes and give him a run for his money.

I think right now, I would lean Zare. As you said Steveson isn’t focusing on freestyle, nor is he wrestling the best competition in the world to keep improving. 
 

Both of them in top form I would Favor Steveson solidly. To my eye Steveson appears bigger, and moves better. As bad as a style matchup it appears to be for Steveson, it might be worse for Zare. 
 

Outside of gutwrenches Steveson controlled a lot of match, and came close to scoring a 4 pointer himself.  But currently this second in freestyle I would lean Zare.

Would have loved to see the matchup for a decade but we will never know 

Edited by Rk_Kerk

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5 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

At some point if you continue to not show up you can’t consider yourself the heavyweight champ. Especially when this match was booked he called Zare out.

Except it happened literally a couple months before.

This isn't Kurt Angle saying he is the best because he won Olympic Gold.

This is Steveson, who won Olympic gold just under six (6) months ago in a tournament that Zare was also in. 

I am not disputing that Zare did not win worlds four (4) months ago.  I am stating that two (2) months prior to worlds, Steveson won the most prestigious tournament of the last five (5) years.

Why are you acting like some ridiculous amount of time passed between Olympics and Worlds?  Followup question, why are you putting more merit on a watered down worlds over the most prestigious tournament of the last five (5) years?  Another followup question, why are you acting like Zare did not get his shot?  He did and failed to even earn the right to face Steveson for Olympic gold.

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11 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Except it happened literally a couple months before.

This isn't Kurt Angle saying he is the best because he won Olympic Gold.

This is Steveson, who won Olympic gold just under six (6) months ago in a tournament that Zare was also in. 

I am not disputing that Zare did not win worlds four (4) months ago.  I am stating that two (2) months prior to worlds, Steveson won the most prestigious tournament of the last five (5) years.

Why are you acting like some ridiculous amount of time passed between Olympics and Worlds?  Followup question, why are you putting more merit on a watered down worlds over the most prestigious tournament of the last five (5) years?  Another followup question, why are you acting like Zare did not get his shot?  He did and failed to even earn the right to face Steveson for Olympic gold.

First many of the weights were watered down but heavyweight wasn’t one of them. Second my issue is once this exhibition was announced Gable was chirping for Zare to show to see who the king is. Gable again is not showing up, he did win the biggest tournament in the last five years but at some point you have to defend the title if you want to be considered the best. Knowing he’s moving on from real wrestling for the acting world this is probably his last chance to face him while still training full time. 

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2 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

First many of the weights were watered down but heavyweight wasn’t one of them. Second my issue is once this exhibition was announced Gable was chirping for Zare to show to see who the king is. Gable again is not showing up, he did win the biggest tournament in the last five years but at some point you have to defend the title if you want to be considered the best. Knowing he’s moving on from real wrestling for the acting world this is probably his last chance to face him while still training full time. 

Yes Heavyweight was watered down.  It did not include the best wrestler on the planet in it.

He earned the right to chirp.  You're putting the cart before the horse as if Zare is some god.  He isn't.  He actually lost at the same tournament from two months prior to the one that you're attempting to anoint him as said god.  It's ridiculous.  If some sort of extended time had lapsed between Olympics and Worlds, like an entire year, or Worlds and now, again like an entire year, then I would be right there with you.   

I mean... Zare hasn't even wrestled since worlds.  Using your logic, since double the time has elapsed since Worlds to now than what elapsed between the Olympics and Worlds, and both of the wrestlers that are being discussed here have not wrestled since should we not be discussing Khizriev as the world #1?  He did just win Yarygin, after all.  Which is the most difficult tournament since of the last 4-ish months - since worlds.

Since you seem to only have a tunneled concept of time I could go back to 2019 Junior Worlds and point out that Zare lost to Parris via pin after being down 3-1.  Now that sort of time difference is ridiculous for me to bring up and try to hold weight to it.  Just as ridiculous as trying to say that a result from four (4) months ago should hold more weight than a result from six (6) months ago when the result from six (6) months ago was the most prestigious and difficult since 2016 Olympics and the one from four (4) months ago was not.

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Yes Heavyweight was watered down.  It did not include the best wrestler on the planet in it.

He earned the right to chirp.  You're putting the cart before the horse as if Zare is some god.  He isn't.  He actually lost at the same tournament from two months prior to the one that you're attempting to anoint him as said god.  It's ridiculous.  If some sort of extended time had lapsed between Olympics and Worlds, like an entire year, or Worlds and now, again like an entire year, then I would be right there with you.   

I mean... Zare hasn't even wrestled since worlds.  Using your logic, since double the time has elapsed since Worlds to now than what elapsed between the Olympics and Worlds, and both of the wrestlers that are being discussed here have not wrestled since should we not be discussing Khizriev as the world #1?  He did just win Yarygin, after all.  Which is the most difficult tournament since of the last 4-ish months - since worlds.

Since you seem to only have a tunneled concept of time I could go back to 2019 Junior Worlds and point out that Zare lost to Parris via pin after being down 3-1.  Now that sort of time difference is ridiculous for me to bring up and try to hold weight to it.  Just as ridiculous as trying to say that a result from four (4) months ago should hold more weight than a result from six (6) months ago when the result from six (6) months ago was the most prestigious and difficult since 2016 Olympics and the one from four (4) months ago was not.

I guess you’re a fan of the ducking that happens in college wrestling? What is the timeframe that is acceptable? I’m also not saying Zare would beat Gable, I just want to see them wrestle and this is probably the last time that could happen. It’s also weird that your cool with people chirping and not backing it up but it is clear why you spend so much time on message boards. 

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Gable would have beaten Zare if they wrestled at the Olympics.  

It would be a closer match if they hit at Worlds in Oslo, but I would still have picked Gable if he were training seriously for it.

If they wrestle at the exhibition, I'm taking Zare.  

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On 2/1/2022 at 2:54 PM, wrestlingphish said:

Also keep in mind that there was a misapplication of the rules that allowed a restart for Gable in the closing seconds that should not have happened. No restart, no last second heroics, no gold medal. Gable and Zare would both have had one loss to the same wrestler. 

except Zare is 2-1 against Geno and Gable would have been 0-1 against him

But shoulda woulda coulda, history is written by the victors.

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