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Lineup for US team for the 12th Feb showdown vs Iran

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53 minutes ago, The Genius said:

Masih Alinejad is a known traitor who never wastes a moment to put Iranians down while she lives in the US and gets funded by the US State Department to run anti-Iran propaganda shows. 

I'm sure I can find some nice political propaganda tweets ****ting on the US too if that's what this thread has become. 

So he didn't say that?

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6 hours ago, Jim L said:

I would like to know the US reason for denying visas, but suspect we will never get an official response. It seems unlikely that they randomly denied 6 visas. 

Probably not a lot fans showing up to an Iran v. US match in Australia :)

I am not too far away from Canada so that sounds good to me!

I do not know the reason for US denying visas either, but it is not because of Dabir's stupid comments.  They also denied visas to a referee, a coach, two wrestlers, and team manager

I can assure you, if Iran wrestled US in Australia, the stadium would be full of Iranian immigrant fans. 

I am far from Canada, but I too, may consider going there

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5 hours ago, WrestlingFan_IR said:

anti-Iran or anti-Islamic-Republic?  

The nation is the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Your question itself reeks of the regime change arrogance that permeates so much of US foreign policy. Or perhaps you are MEK?  

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On 2/5/2022 at 4:28 AM, pa in taiwan said:

The nation is the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Your question itself reeks of the regime change arrogance that permeates so much of US foreign policy. Or perhaps you are MEK?  

 

Edited by WrestlingFan_IR
security concerns

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On 2/3/2022 at 10:24 AM, gimpeltf said:

I found some- googled Dabir

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/article-695189

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/469705/The-U-S-has-yet-to-issue-visa-to-Alireza-Dabir

First article only mentions that HE doesn't get a visa but second mentions another wrestler and a coach.

On this particular subject, I would not trust either of those sources.

 

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It's sad that some of you, no matter what, don't give the US the benefit of the doubt...you instantly think "Bad USA!"...instead of "I'm sure there is a reason".  I know we, the USA, has it's problems, but I'll never understand why some people instantly think the worst of the US without any facts.  Sure...it does suck that this match was canceled, but I'm sure the visa decision makers have their reasons.

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On 2/5/2022 at 10:13 AM, dman115 said:

It's sad that some of you, no matter what, don't give the US the benefit of the doubt...you instantly think "Bad USA!"...instead of "I'm sure there is a reason".  I know we, the USA, has it's problems, but I'll never understand why some people instantly think the worst of the US without any facts.  Sure...it does suck that this match was canceled, but I'm sure the visa decision makers have their reasons.

I'm optimistic that you feel this way about all opaque U.S. federal government decisions.  They must 'have their reasons.'   

Edited by nom

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2 hours ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

I appreciate that they found replacements on such short notice but this is going to be a slaughter. 

I don't like exhibitions in general, but what is the point of this?

Why recreate one round of the Pan Ams? 

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Yes, guys were training for Iran. But its good to get them a match on short notice with someone else. Something to train for.   Where's the problem?

I don't see any matchup where US guys are in danger of losing, but who knows.  

There is a value of coming together as a team, meeting with your peers, and wrestling against unfamiliar opponents. 

It's 2 or 3 steps down from Iran, but also an opportunity to strut your stuff, try out moves, keep your weight under control, entertain the fans, and so on.

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On 2/10/2022 at 5:37 PM, The Genius said:

Something only an American could say.

We're talking about the same country that politicises visas for the UN.

Not really. We hear this from people from many countries. "Us vs Them" mentality which just won't go away.

USA is a nation of people from many other countries. A history of immigrants contributing and becoming valuable members of the society. Too many here know little of other nations and less of those who live there. Few speak a second language while many in other nations do, mainly because it is needed to communicate with neighbors and friends.

Every nation has its intolerant fools and some of them are in leadership positions - we all suffer as a result.

Sporting events are generally supposed to be unifying and often are. Honest competition that can help form & cement frienships as we appreciate those who train and compete. Sorry to see no accomodation made to let in a full team for an event that would help both nations. We are deprived of the opportunity to see highly skilled competition - we lose out.

Best of luck in the future as we hope this type of crap gets worked out so we get to see the top competitors - whether the politicians like them or not.

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13 hours ago, Katie said:

In case anyone is interested, I believe the grounds for being denied a visa are listed here.

And which one do you suggest applies to the current 92kg world champion Kamran Ghasempour, who has competed around the world for years without any issues?

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7 hours ago, The Genius said:

And which one do you suggest applies to the current 92kg world champion Kamran Ghasempour, who has competed around the world for years without any issues?

I literally don't know any of the facts, so I have no opinion about any of the denials. I just thought it might improve the discussion if people could see some of the actual standards at issue.  

Edited by Katie

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I literally don't know any of the facts, so I have no opinion about any of the denials. I just thought it might improve the discussion if people could see the actual standards at issue.  
Thankfully all of the replacement wrestlers secured their passports.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

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19 hours ago, Katie said:

In case anyone is interested, I believe the grounds for being denied a visa are listed here.

Say what? That's a statute. Even assuming it's the pertinent statute, it does not say which ground was applied in this case.

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Reading through this thread, there seems to be a real lack of information out there that hasn't been filtered through propaganda sources.  I also see a lot of opinions that seem to be influenced by politics, which sucks, because there has long been enormous mutual respect between the US and Iranian wrestling communities, no matter what our respective governments may be saying about each other.  That said, and without knowing the real facts, I see plenty of blame to go around. 

To USA Wrestling, which seems to be finger-pointing at both DHS (for refusing visas) and a bit at Iran (saying they gave Iran all the visa info they need), I'm not buying it.  The fact that Mongolia's team couldn't get here in time either tells me it was more than just an Iran/DHS issue.  It tells me USAW didn't get the visa info out soon enough, and wasn't nearly urgent enough in following up to make sure the visa info is processed well in advance.  And beyond that, USAW should know that it isn't nearly enough to say "here's the Visa info" -- they need to do more to shepherd this through with DHS.  Jurisdiction aside, I have zero doubt that the IOC has attaches that streamline the visa processing for international event, i.e. someone who can reach out to DHS at a high level and vouch to a certain extent for the delegation, making sure that over-technical refusals are kept to a minimum, with only genuine security risks kept out.  USAW clearly is not doing this, or isn't doing it well.  They can't expect other countries to send wrestling delegations here if we don't have a robust system in place to avoid problems.  Lets face it, the best wrestling countries in the world are a who's who of US geopolitical foes -- Russia, Iran, Cuba, etc. -- and if freaking Mongolia can't get their visas processed in time, much less Iran, then USAW clearly has some work to do improve its relations with DHS and improve their communications with other countries' delegations.

To DHS, it seems there's two possible concerns -- timing delays, and politics-based refusals.  Some of the timing related delays may be COVID-related and I hope they work through them.  As for the alleged refusals of Iranian visas, if it is true that a full six members of the Iranian delegation had their visas refused, then something's wrong at DHS.  Visa refusals should be one-offs.  My own suspicion is that its a remnant of the Trump era, who made no secret about wanting to ban travel by Islamic countries, and I suspect they tried to imbed like-minded people into the visa-issuance office before Trump's departure.  If that's what happened, then it needs to get cleaned up to be more even-handed in application.

To the Iranian delegation, I sympathize if a fill six delegation members were refused visas, as a number that high is unprecedented, and suggests undue suspicion on the US's part.  But I really don't have much sympathy for Dabir, if reports are true that he talked about how to put "Death to America" into practice in a speech.  If someone in a US delegation had given an interview where he talked favorably about "Death to Iran," I'd fully expect Iran to refuse entrance.  Its one thing to have differing and conflicting political views, but another to advocate the death of another country.  Not that I personally think Dabir is a safety risk; I've seen him compete in the US before, and I think its a bit preposterous to think someone of his stature would be plotting a terrorist attack on the side.  But come on, you just can't have the head of your delegation be someone who's openly embraced the death of their host country.   If there were translation issues as to what his comments really meant, he should publicly clarify them.

That's my three cents, anyway.

Edited by BAC

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2 hours ago, NJDan said:

Say what? That's a statute. Even assuming it's the pertinent statute, it does not say which ground was applied in this case.

I am no expert -- so nobody should rely on me -- but I believe the INA establishes what visas are available and on what conditions.  I believe consular officers also consider whether applicants for nonimmigrant visas have a nonimmigrant intent -- an analysis also governed by the INA.  If you think I am wrong, feel free to look into it for yourself and share what you find.

I know nothing of the facts at issue with respect to the Iranians' particular cases, and I have not (and will not) comment on them.

Edited by Katie

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34 minutes ago, BAC said:

Reading through this thread, there seems to be a real lack of information out there that hasn't been filtered through propaganda sources.  I also see a lot of opinions that seem to be influenced by politics, which sucks, because there has long been enormous mutual respect between the US and Iranian wrestling communities, no matter what our respective governments may be saying about each other.  That said, and without knowing the real facts, I see plenty of blame to go around. 

To USA Wrestling, which seems to be finger-pointing at both DHS (for refusing visas) and a bit at Iran (saying they gave Iran all the visa info they need), I'm not buying it.  The fact that Mongolia's team couldn't get here in time either tells me it was more than just an Iran/DHS issue.  It tells me USAW didn't get the visa info out soon enough, and wasn't nearly urgent enough in following up to make sure the visa info is processed well in advance.  And beyond that, USAW should know that it isn't nearly enough to say "here's the Visa info" -- they need to do more to shepherd this through with DHS.  Jurisdiction aside, I have zero doubt that the IOC has attaches that streamline the visa processing for international event, i.e. someone who can reach out to DHS at a high level and vouch to a certain extent for the delegation, making sure that over-technical refusals are kept to a minimum, with only genuine security risks kept out.  USAW clearly is not doing this, or isn't doing it well.  They can't expect other countries to send wrestling delegations here if we don't have a robust system in place to avoid problems.  Lets face it, the best wrestling countries in the world are a who's who of US geopolitical foes -- Russia, Iran, Cuba, etc. -- and if freaking Mongolia can't get their visas processed in time, much less Iran, then USAW clearly has some work to do improve its relations with DHS and improve their communications with other countries' delegations.

To DHS, it seems there's two possible concerns -- timing delays, and politics-based refusals.  Some of the timing related delays may be COVID-related and I hope they work through them.  As for the alleged refusals of Iranian visas, if it is true that a full six members of the Iranian delegation had their visas refused, then something's wrong at DHS.  Visa refusals should be one-offs.  My own suspicion is that its a remnant of the Trump era, who made no secret about wanting to ban travel by Islamic countries, and I suspect they tried to imbed like-minded people into the visa-issuance office before Trump's departure.  If that's what happened, then it needs to get cleaned up to be more even-handed in application.

To the Iranian delegation, I sympathize if a fill six delegation members were refused visas, as a number that high is unprecedented, and suggests undue suspicion on the US's part.  But I really don't have much sympathy for Dabir, if reports are true that he talked about how to put "Death to America" into practice in a speech.  If someone in a US delegation had given an interview where he talked favorably about "Death to Iran," I'd fully expect Iran to refuse entrance.  Its one thing to have differing and conflicting political views, but another to advocate the death of another country.  Not that I personally think Dabir is a safety risk; I've seen him compete in the US before, and I think its a bit preposterous to think someone of his stature would be plotting a terrorist attack on the side.  But come on, you just can't have the head of your delegation be someone who's openly embraced the death of their host country.   If there were translation issues as to what his comments really meant, he should publicly clarify them.

That's my three cents, anyway.

It would have been the Department of State that denied the visas.

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