Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
The_Education

Best non-Hodge winners of the last 5 years

Recommended Posts

PA-fan-Just curious. Take away the far and away part. Why would you argue Taylor is better than Dake? This is an Iowa fan asking you the question, I have no personal stake in Kyle Dake at all. I just think the evidence overwhelmingly shows he's the better wrestler right now. We have head to head evidence and resume evidence that both show Dake is better. Tell me why I should believe Taylor is better.

 

First, I am strictly speaking in a head to head sense. I don't, haven't (and wouldn't) argue that Taylor is having the better career thus far, on an accomplishment level (although strictly speaking he is only 1 win away really...but that is neither here nor there). Dake is clearly more accomplished because he is 3 for 3 in terms of titles to Taylor's 1 for 2. The # of career losses tips the scale back a bit towards Taylor, but not nearly enough to overcome 3 titles in as many tries.

 

That all being said and cleared up, I would bet on Taylor in a folkstyle match, say if they somehow met at the Southern Scuffle this season. Reason being, I think Taylor's style would overcome Dake's in most instances, all other things being equal. Dake is a dominant wrestler, but in a different way then Taylor. Nobody scores on him, and he controls the pace in a very calculated and methodical way. Taylor on the other hand is so offensively dynamic, he can not seemingly be stopped from scoring. I would learn towards Taylor in a format where he can scramble and roll and not worry about giving up exposure points.

 

It reminds me of the old saying "Offense wins games, but defense wins championships." Kyle Dake seems to be the poster boy for that mantra in Collegiate wrestling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. I respect your opinion. As I said earlier I would bet Dake but very close. I would not be surprised, nor would I care, if I were wrong. Please pass on the well thought out, articulate, friendly way of responding to your buddies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what exactly would that "offense" look like against Dake? From their feet? Takedowns from neutral aren't any different in folkstyle than freestyle, Dake had 2 takedowns vs none when they met. Or are you actually claiming that Taylor is going to turn Dake a couple of times? The truth is that Dake would get a couple of takedowns (like what already happened) Taylor might get an escape or possibly even 2 and Dake would like 5-2, 6-2...something like that. Or Dake might just pin him again. I wouldn't bet on the pin, but it's certainly possible based on what we've seen not only from their head to head but also Taylor's match with Bubba. The first time you wrestle a more dominant physical wrestler and get stuck, it could be a fluke. When it happens again..there is probably something there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we are going to throw in the # of career losses as a factor then I think we should count Taylor's losses as a redshirt, seeing as how Dake was winning his first NCAA title that same year. How many losses did he have during his redshirt year?

 

2. But that is a sort of ridiculous argument. Cael Sanderson lost a match in his RS year. Does that mean he was not Undefeated as an NCAA athlete? There is a reason people red shirt...the fact that Dake didn't makes his accomplishments more impressive...but the fact that Taylor did does not limit his.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stumpy-No f'ing way your getting the PSU train to agree to those terms. You can try but you're going to be met with much resistance. Hell, I'll save them the time. We all know redshirt losses are meaningless just like freestyle losses are meaningless. I don't agree with that, Stumpy, but at least now we don't have to extend this thread another three pages telling you why redshirt losses don't matter.

 

 

Damn! PA-fan beat me to it. That was fast bro.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So what exactly would that "offense" look like against Dake? From their feet? Takedowns from neutral aren't any different in folkstyle than freestyle, Dake had 2 takedowns vs none when they met. Or are you actually claiming that Taylor is going to turn Dake a couple of times? The truth is that Dake would get a couple of takedowns (like what already happened) Taylor might get an escape or possibly even 2 and Dake would like 5-2, 6-2...something like that. Or Dake might just pin him again. I wouldn't bet on the pin, but it's certainly possible based on what we've seen not only from their head to head but also Taylor's match with Bubba. The first time you wrestle a more dominant physical wrestler and get stuck, it could be a fluke. When it happens again..there is probably something there.

 

It is very clear that you either 1) did not understand my stated opinion at all, specifically when I referenced WHY/HOW I think Taylor would be more likely to score in Folk vs. Free. 2) are just a complete troll.

 

Either way, Im not going to explain again what I just explained 2 posts ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right. He controls the pace and has great offense. All of which Dake has already demonstrated the ability to render useless in a head to head bout. So what you have left is scrambling over his back. Last time he went to his back against Dake he didn't get off until the ref slapped the mat. Exposing your back more against a guy that already pinned you sounds like a fabulous idea .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Right. He controls the pace and has great offense. All of which Dake has already demonstrated the ability to render useless in a head to head bout. So what you have left is scrambling over his back. Last time he went to his back against Dake he didn't get off until the ref slapped the mat. Exposing your back more against a guy that already pinned you sounds like a fabulous idea .

 

Do you just deliberately forget things that were already established? Like the fact that the way in which you are able to shoot and score in freestyle is hindered much more than in folkstyle...given that you can give up exposure points during your td attempt and actually wind up on top, with less points than you gained. If you think this doesn't mean anything, especially to a guy who moves and scores in the way Taylor does, then you again are either ignorant of the differences or are just trolling.

 

And for the 100th time, stop discussing the freestyle match, we are past that. This is the college board. If you want to talk about how Dake is "far and away" the better international prospect..head over to that board. While here, discuss the NCAA and folkstyle comparisons between the two, especially when it has already been demonstrated that freestyle results and folkstyle result don't directly correlate...especially with guys at the level of Dake and Taylor (folkstyle match to match results rarely even directly correlate at that high of a level...see Caldwell v Metcalf).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...