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rod_frufit

USA Greco

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It might help marginally, but what would make the most difference is more focus on Greco at the youth level. There just aren’t many guys who focus on Greco during their key development years. It’s usually folk —> free—> then Greco gets the leftovers. By the time most guys focus on Greco they are in their early twenties. 

I don’t care if the whole US national team coaching staff was Russia’s top coaches, without the right culture and proper developmental early on it will be very difficult to consistently upgrade our results.

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I basically agree with the other comment. Having a foreign director of  technical development on Team US' staff, I don't think it would do much. The role is too bureaucratic, aloof.

What the US needs is good coaches that can guide at least a 15 year old individually.  So he isn't half a decade behind the world when turns 22 and starts competing at the senior level.  Something like Kuzentov. They'd still need to land good talent for it to work and have some competitive architecture to put them through, which is the set of problems coming from folk being so hegemonic. 

Youth Greco can be a dream to aim for. But in the shorter term, I think its the 14-19 age range thats killing the US right now.  Every other sucesfull greco teams finds a way to train up this age group,  even if Greco has zero support in the country at large.  If the US can do something other than wallowing away the high school years. The choices now are abysmal.  Fargo and a tiny clique of insular travel Greco. 

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This post is not meant to be demeaning to any of our current athletes giving their best on the Greco side.

Our issue with Greco right now is talent.  The kids/men focusing on Greco are simply not talented enough. 

In hindsight, I believe the NMU program has been counterproductive - we've spent too much time and effort on developing lower level talent to the best of their ability.  Good for them, but the difference in the medal haul between the 1990s and 2000s speaks for itself.

We need to address our deficiencies at the grass roots level.  Forget Greco as a specific style to train toward - upper body technique at the youth and high school level in all styles is terrible.  The Russian critique of our FS athletes as being too focused on leg attacks is accurate.  Only when we have a wider pool of better athletes more comfortable with upper body wrestling will we be able to attract a deep enough pool of talent to fill out Greco teams that will perform the way we should expect.

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My opinion is that most Folkstyle coaches steer most kids away from Greco (ok, Capt Obvious). Why, though? College coaches will give scholarships to the better folk or fs wrestlers. So largely the ones that don't rate scholarships try other things.

We need to make it worthwhile to a good athlete to train Greco. A lot of the old Soviet countries would tell the kids which style/sport to try. So it was even up as to opportunities.

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3 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

My opinion is that most Folkstyle coaches steer most kids away from Greco (ok, Capt Obvious). Why, though? College coaches will give scholarships to the better folk or fs wrestlers. So largely the ones that don't rate scholarships try other things.

Plus the fact we have few Greco local events and competition at those events is often small with little training.   Obviously some of that was created due to what was mentioned above.  Clearly this could also improve if more kids would show up to the events and coaches added Greco technic to a portion of their club practices.  Greco definitely has some positives when it comes to youth and HS wrestling, so I feel like it should be incorporated more than it is.  Not to mention it’s a nice break for what can be boring repetition of the other styles.   I feel like Greco could get a little more attention if it was separate from the Freestyle season in the US, but the next obvious choice would be during the fall as a preseason tune up for folkstyle.  But will there be enough wrestlers available then for it. 

Edited by MadMardigain

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3 hours ago, Voice_of_the_Quakers said:

This post is not meant to be demeaning to any of our current athletes giving their best on the Greco side.

Our issue with Greco right now is talent.  The kids/men focusing on Greco are simply not talented enough. 

In hindsight, I believe the NMU program has been counterproductive - we've spent too much time and effort on developing lower level talent to the best of their ability.  Good for them, but the difference in the medal haul between the 1990s and 2000s speaks for itself.

We need to address our deficiencies at the grass roots level.  Forget Greco as a specific style to train toward - upper body technique at the youth and high school level in all styles is terrible.  The Russian critique of our FS athletes as being too focused on leg attacks is accurate.  Only when we have a wider pool of better athletes more comfortable with upper body wrestling will we be able to attract a deep enough pool of talent to fill out Greco teams that will perform the way we should expect.

It is fundamentally true that if you are not athletically talented enough to be a world medalist, it doesn't matter how much training you get. That looks like a lot of them. 

That said. Even if they are talented enough to win gold, waiting until your in your early 20s to get serious about greco will at best limit their careers since it will take them l5 years at least of catch up work and learning on the job. And will they reach their full potential or age catch up to them anyway. 

Its a bigger deal at the lower and mid weights.  

Less so at super heavy to mid 80 kgs. There aren't  international wrestlers who are actually a full  130 kg while being strong and athletic. So if you can find someone close to that, you can turn them into star even if they start greco late.

The problem with getting the best  talent is that something almost has to go wrong with your folk career to end up in greco. And if you are not the best in folk. 

 

* Look at Amos. He is a top talent. What happened when faced that Russian prospect Mishelin. He couldn't overwhelm Mishelin with his athleticism and his greco got exposed. It was a beat down. And thats a Russian  junior who is not particularly close to making a senior  world team. 

Edited by HawkY

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6 hours ago, Voice_of_the_Quakers said:

This post is not meant to be demeaning to any of our current athletes giving their best on the Greco side.

Our issue with Greco right now is talent.  The kids/men focusing on Greco are simply not talented enough. 

In hindsight, I believe the NMU program has been counterproductive - we've spent too much time and effort on developing lower level talent to the best of their ability.  Good for them, but the difference in the medal haul between the 1990s and 2000s speaks for itself.

We need to address our deficiencies at the grass roots level.  Forget Greco as a specific style to train toward - upper body technique at the youth and high school level in all styles is terrible.  The Russian critique of our FS athletes as being too focused on leg attacks is accurate.  Only when we have a wider pool of better athletes more comfortable with upper body wrestling will we be able to attract a deep enough pool of talent to fill out Greco teams that will perform the way we should expect.

 

6 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

My opinion is that most Folkstyle coaches steer most kids away from Greco (ok, Capt Obvious). Why, though? College coaches will give scholarships to the better folk or fs wrestlers. So largely the ones that don't rate scholarships try other things.

We need to make it worthwhile to a good athlete to train Greco. A lot of the old Soviet countries would tell the kids which style/sport to try. So it was even up as to opportunities.

So basically…

Have the Living the Dream fund pay more for a Greco gold?

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