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websterk149

Wrestling Sports Betting

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This has probably already been talked about and if I am asking something dumb or past due then I apologize. Just I’m curious as to why with sports gambling becoming legal in more and more states. Why is there never anything in wrestling world to gamble on in college or freestyle/Greco wrestling world? Hell with all the different kind of sports you can bet on around the world you’d think there would be something right?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, websterk149 said:

 

This has probably already been talked about and if I am asking something dumb or past due then I apologize. Just I’m curious as to why with sports gambling becoming legal in more and more states. Why is there never anything in wrestling world to gamble on in college or freestyle/Greco wrestling world? Hell with all the different kind of sports you can bet on around the world you’d think there would be something right?

 

 

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See:  http://board.themat.com/index.php?/profile/32728-jimmy-cinnabon/

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10 minutes ago, websterk149 said:


It says that the topic either doesn’t exist or I don’t have permission to view it :/


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Jimmy Cinnabon, he's our resident betting/gambling bookie.  You'll get really good odds and if you lose you won't have to pay.  :)

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Jimmy Cinnabon, he's our resident betting/gambling bookie.  You'll get really good odds and if you lose you won't have to pay.  :)

I’m on here enough to know he’s a troll lol and I’m actually curious bout this and have gambling buddys wanting to know too is why I ask lol


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2 minutes ago, websterk149 said:


I’m on here enough to know he’s a troll lol and I’m actually curious bout this and have gambling buddys wanting to know too is why I ask lol


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As few recently found out, (only after I lost ten dollars), betting money on this site is against forum policy, but you can bet other things like your signature or avatar or being banished

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Wrestling will need to get more popular to attract enough betters to make it worth the time of sports books to set lines and start taking wagers. i think it has a chance to get there, tho. 

You don’t think they will even come conference/tourney time?


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46 minutes ago, websterk149 said:


You don’t think they will even come conference/tourney time?


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It may. There are usually future odds for NCAA and Olympic champs. but it almost always has very high max bets and are essentially prop bets to get people in the door to increase their handle on the rest of their book.

Legalized sports gaming in Iowa may help get to more regular season lines faster. Saw a line for the Iowa v Penn State dual by a local casino. 

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On 1/29/2022 at 4:51 PM, websterk149 said:

 

This has probably already been talked about and if I am asking something dumb or past due then I apologize. Just I’m curious as to why with sports gambling becoming legal in more and more states. Why is there never anything in wrestling world to gamble on in college or freestyle/Greco wrestling world? Hell with all the different kind of sports you can bet on around the world you’d think there would be something right?

 

 

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I have never gambled, nor would I.  I do however have an extensive education and background in Mathematics that probably allows me to make a couple of observations:
1)  I would assume that the cost to perform an analysis of the likelihood of the outcome of an event would be reasonably the same whether 10 people or a million people wagered on the event.  Amortizing that cost over 10 bets would be much less cost effective than over a million bets.
2)  The best case scenario for gambling houses is when a very large number of bets are placed, pretty much equally on both outcomes.  This guarantees the payout is equal regardless of who wins.  The "house" makes money on the (small) difference in odds for each respective outcome.  The odds are adjusted as money comes in to encourage this equal money being bet on each outcome.
I'm guessing that as long as wrestling would generate much less betting than football, basketball, etc., the large gambling houses would not want to get as involved for the above reasons.  Of course, I'm sure if you will take bad enough odds on an outcome, someone may want to accommodate you.
Note: These assumptions would apply to large gambling houses, not the "local bookie".  That would probably be more like a scene from "Rocky".
I hope I've helped.  Anyway, Good Luck! 

Note: This is simply the same as @Jaroslav Hasek 's answer, only somewhat more detailed.

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Additional thought:

Like everything else, things evolve.  Maybe it's only a matter of time before you can wager on whether or not Desanto will slap a Kimura on his opponent.
Generally, if there is a demand for something, someone will supply it.  I suspect that's where we will get to in the future.

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I have never had any issues with gambling personally - I always keep wagers small and bets infrequent.  Adds a little extra excitement for the match.  I have had a couple of people close to me have extreme problems with addiction to gambling.  In one case - a person losing everything and stealing from family to cover losses.  That part of it always makes me a bit sad.  I suppose the same could be said for something like drinking alcohol which I also enjoy in moderation (but have seen results of its devastation to people's lives).

The access to gambling seems to have increased greatly since I was a kid.  I thought at one point it used to be that you had to be in Atlantic City, Las Vegas, or a Native American Reservation.  My grandfather had a friend who was a bookie, so all of our bets would go through him as a family.  I think that might be an Italian thing to have family bookies, but not quite sure.  

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For an individual sport like wrestling, one of the issues could be how easy it would be for an athlete to throw a match. It’s much more difficult to organize and get away with point shaving in basketball or football. Throwing a match in Tennis without being obvious is very tricky. But wrestling would be simple and we’ve seen matches thrown at the Olympic level (and prob others we don’t know about).  If there were odds for individual matches at dual meets, it could potentially be a disaster. 
 

NCAA tourney odds might pop up though. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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13 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

For an individual sport like wrestling, one of the issues could be how easy it would be for an athlete to throw a match. It’s much more difficult to organize and get away with point shaving in basketball or football. Throwing a match in Tennis without being obvious is very tricky. But wrestling would be simple and we’ve seen matches thrown at the Olympic level (and prob others we don’t know about).  If there were odds for individual matches at dual meets, it could potentially be a disaster. 
 

NCAA tourney odds might pop up though. 

It's actually pretty easy and happens more than you think. ASU had a huge scandal with point shaving in basketball and nobody even knew until years later. And that only happened because a friend of a friend of somebody involved got busted for something unrelated and told the FBI. 

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Match fixing in tennis is a pretty big problem. Need to refresh my memory on the specifics but I think it's a lot of low level Russian and ex-soviet players combined with in-game betting (meaning you can bet on who wins the next game or set or even point before the full match is over). Anyway, if you google "tennis match fixing" a bunch of Russian names show up on your screen.

I think historically you find match fixing when you have under-compensated athletes. If there's a lot of money being wagered on a popular sport, but the athletes aren't getting paid a lot, there's a big incentive for them to get involved with match fixing. It's not just college athletes in the US (altho maybe that changes with NIL?) but internationally you see lots of problems with low level soccer match fixing too. 

So the upshot for wrestling is at is becomes more popular the athlete compensation should rise commensurately with the interest in wagering on the sport, which should reduce the pressure on athletes to fix matches. And if gambling helps speed the increases in popularity of the sport of wrestling than it could actually help reduce the overall amount of match fixing.

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3 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Match fixing in tennis is a pretty big problem. Need to refresh my memory on the specifics but I think it's a lot of low level Russian and ex-soviet players combined with in-game betting (meaning you can bet on who wins the next game or set or even point before the full match is over). Anyway, if you google "tennis match fixing" a bunch of Russian names show up on your screen.

I think historically you find match fixing when you have under-compensated athletes. If there's a lot of money being wagered on a popular sport, but the athletes aren't getting paid a lot, there's a big incentive for them to get involved with match fixing. It's not just college athletes in the US (altho maybe that changes with NIL?) but internationally you see lots of problems with low level soccer match fixing too. 

So the upshot for wrestling is at is becomes more popular the athlete compensation should rise commensurately with the interest in wagering on the sport, which should reduce the pressure on athletes to fix matches. And if gambling helps speed the increases in popularity of the sport of wrestling than it could actually help reduce the overall amount of match fixing.

My point is that it is a lot easier to go undetected in a 7 minute wrestling match than 2 hour tennis match.
 

And college wrestling compensation won’t get close to professional tennis. 

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14 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

My point is that it is a lot easier to go undetected in a 7 minute wrestling match than 2 hour tennis match.

i'm not sure that's the case but i'd argue that it's moot anyway because the only way either is going to get caught it is someone detects irregular betting patterns or one of the participants talks about it. 

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8 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

i'm not sure that's the case but i'd argue that it's moot anyway because the only way either is going to get caught it is someone detects irregular betting patterns or one of the participants talks about it. 

First you detect the betting patterns, then you look at the match. Throwing points in tennis looks unnatural and can be obvious. In wrestling it can be as easy as not finishing your shots, getting ridden out, appearing gassed. 

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7 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

First you detect the betting patterns, then you look at the match. Throwing points in tennis looks unnatural and can be obvious. In wrestling it can be as easy as not finishing your shots, getting ridden out, appearing gassed. 

what leads me to believe that tennis fixing is far easier than you're assuming is that amount of fixed matches that are discovered only after the irregular betting patterns are noticed. i think it's probably fairly easy to fix just about any sporting event without detection if the goal is just to lose. 

winning but under a point spread is the real skill. or when both sides are tying to lose but neither side wants to look like theyre trying to loose. that's probably the most difficult to pull off. 

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15 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

I have never gambled, nor would I.  I do however have an extensive education and background in Mathematics that probably allows me to make a couple of observations:
1)  I would assume that the cost to perform an analysis of the likelihood of the outcome of an event would be reasonably the same whether 10 people or a million people wagered on the event.  Amortizing that cost over 10 bets would be much less cost effective than over a million bets.
2)  The best case scenario for gambling houses is when a very large number of bets are placed, pretty much equally on both outcomes.  This guarantees the payout is equal regardless of who wins.  The "house" makes money on the (small) difference in odds for each respective outcome.  The odds are adjusted as money comes in to encourage this equal money being bet on each outcome.
I'm guessing that as long as wrestling would generate much less betting than football, basketball, etc., the large gambling houses would not want to get as involved for the above reasons.  Of course, I'm sure if you will take bad enough odds on an outcome, someone may want to accommodate you.
Note: These assumptions would apply to large gambling houses, not the "local bookie".  That would probably be more like a scene from "Rocky".
I hope I've helped.  Anyway, Good Luck! 

Note: This is simply the same as @Jaroslav Hasek 's answer, only somewhat more detailed.

Everything you say is true, BUT i am told that the web-bookies offer dozens of prop bets on every football game (who will score first, will team X get a rushing TD etc). I can't imagine tha many of these bets have a lot of takers, yet they are offered.

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2 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

First you detect the betting patterns, then you look at the match. Throwing points in tennis looks unnatural and can be obvious. In wrestling it can be as easy as not finishing your shots, getting ridden out, appearing gassed. 

Seems to me that hitting a shot out as opposed to in is pretty undetectable, and a just a few bad shots can cost a player a game, then a set and then a match.

Edited by NJDan

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53 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Everything you say is true, BUT i am told that the web-bookies offer dozens of prop bets on every football game (who will score first, will team X get a rushing TD etc). I can't imagine tha many of these bets have a lot of takers, yet they are offered.

True.  I was amazed when I saw on ESPN that someone won almost $1000 on a $5 bet on one of the NFL games that went into OT in week 18.  They bet 4 different things that had to happen for them to win, a couple of which were odd to me .  
As I said, I'm sure there will be more betting in the future on everything.  Where there is a demand, someone will supply that demand, regardless of what it is. 

With good enough odds for them, you can find someone to take about any bet.
I'm sure that if you would put down $1000 to win $2000, someone would take your bet that the Brands Bros will successfully de-pants Cael at the NCAAs.  Heck, I'm not at all a gambler, but I may even take that one.

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