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jeffr_ideal

5th year Dake v. Ben Askren at 174

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I'd say Askren 3 times out of 4 times. Chris Pendleton is a monster too, and thats who stopped Askren from being a 4-timer. I'm a Dake fan, but also a realist. There were no Chris Pendleton types in Dakes weight the first 2 years he won it. Especially considering PEndleton is 2 years older than Askren. Then, his final (2) years Askren didn't have close matches. Enough said. Is see it as a fairly close match each time, with Askren winning 3 of 4.

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I'd say Askren 3 times out of 4 times. Chris Pendleton is a monster too, and thats who stopped Askren from being a 4-timer. I'm a Dake fan, but also a realist. There were no Chris Pendleton types in Dakes weight the first 2 years he won it. Especially considering PEndleton is 2 years older than Askren. Then, his final (2) years Askren didn't have close matches. Enough said. Is see it as a fairly close match each time, with Askren winning 3 of 4.

 

Do you say 3 of 4 because of the size advantage? Or are you talking about hypothetically if each were the same size?

 

I wouldn't pick Askren over Dake if both were the same size. I think Dake is better in every position, and that includes scrambling. I like Askren, but I always believed his scrambling ability was a little overblown.

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If Dake actually has time to bulk up and strength train into the weight I say Dake 3/4... he loses the first meeting close, being down early by Askrens funk and coming back to lose by... 1 or 2 maybe then wins the rest. Dake correctly IMO is considered the second (first by some) best NCAA wrestler of the last 25 years. Guy has a laser like focus and shown the ability to neutralize every advantage his opponents have had on him... especially weight! He wasn't out muscled going from 141 to 149 to 157 to 165, given the time and will power he could adjust at 174.

 

Now say if Dake (who could have gone 157) just bumped from 165 to 174 I say he loses 3 / 4... those 9 lbs of strength can make a big difference on whether Askrens funk can work.

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I think a David Taylor vs. Ben Askren match up is much more interesting... Askren may be able to use DT's aggressiveness against him for back points something he wouldn't have against Dake. I would still pick a bulked up Taylor 2/4 at a minimum maybe 3/4.

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Ben faced much stronger comp than Taylor or Dake and they all scrambled up or down weights to get away from him -Ben wrestled up against the best and won - I say Dake would have the best shot as he would not get agressive on his feet while Taylor would and bingo the match would be over - Do not think Dake would have a prayer with Ben on the mat and bingo he would end up counting the lights. How do you think Herbert would do against Taylor and Dake? Nothing much worked for him against Ben!!

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I love Dake.....but he doesn't beat Ben in his prime. Now if we are talking Dake when he gets to his "prime" versus Ben in his "prime" it may be different. However, I think if Ben would have continued with wrestling he would have been one of the best in the world, several time world and olympic medalist. I think Dake will also be one of the best in the world when it is all said and done; however, he will have a tough road to get there with Burroughs and Howe at his weight. Taylor = non-factor, even though I also like Taylor, he is just behind a very strong international weight class for the US.

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I love Dake.....but he doesn't beat Ben in his prime. Now if we are talking Dake when he gets to his "prime" versus Ben in his "prime" it may be different. However, I think if Ben would have continued with wrestling he would have been one of the best in the world, several time world and olympic medalist. I think Dake will also be one of the best in the world when it is all said and done; however, he will have a tough road to get there with Burroughs and Howe at his weight. Taylor = non-factor, even though I also like Taylor, he is just behind a very strong international weight class for the US.

 

You're making a few assumptions here. We cant just give Askren Best in the World when he went to the Olympics, lost and packed it in for MMA. It would have become very interesting if that didn't happen with the immense talent we already have at 74kg. I would not say Taylor is a non factor. He gets some freestyle under his belt and adds strength he is capable of being the guy. But Howe is above DT and Dake (there's a real life loss for Dake, Scribe) and Burroughs doesn't look like he's slowing down anytime soon. Should be fun to watch it play out. If all same size in their college prime I'd take Dake and Taylor over Askren. Both are too technically sound. I always thought Herbert could have beaten Askren but got caught playing Askren's game.

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I pick askren. Saying askrens competition his junior and senior seasons wasn't there is a complete joke. Herbert was the other main hodge contender that year and askren made him look like a jv wrestler. Gavin was an animal as well and both will likely have better international experience than Taylor will when all is said and done. Dake is a stud, but I think this weight difference would just be too great.

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Ben will always be too strong for Taylor.

 

 

Always? You really think he couldn't fill his frame out and get stronger? He didn't look like a powerhouse in his fights... his wrestling is just amazing in MMA like it was in Folkstyle so he smothers his opponents in his body blanket.

 

Taylor has demolished very strong wrestlers just like Askren did in his prime so he obviously isn't overwhelmed easily. He has been up at 165 the past few years and it would not be a huge hurdle to bulk up one weight class with his tall frame.

 

Why is Gavin going to have more international experience than DT? DT seems like the type to keep wrestling and rack up the international accolades for a long time to come. Just look at his level of improvement in freestyle from last year to this year. If he keeps getting better or bigger or stronger he will be hard to compete with unless you're JB or Dake.

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Taylor's advantage is level change and angles (technique), hips for movement and scramble, and leverage in the absence of freakish strength. DT is obviously strong in the elite sense, but not on the oddball level of Askren. Askren's flexibility trumps DT's hip movement in scramble. I think the advantage is clearly Askren.

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I disagree except for the fact that Askren outweighs DT by a good amount so it isn't a fair comparison. I think DT is a better technician with comparable scrambling skills that will work better in freestyle. Folkstyle may be better for Askren.

 

BUT after thinking about it some more I also can't imagine DT easily beating a big and strong Jake Herbert like Askren did again recently... even AFTER he won World silver. So maybe I'm biased because I really like DT's style?

 

Ok do you think Askren at prime beats Ruth at prime as well?

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DT may translate to FS better, I think Askren's style was too much funk for the FS rules and got himself into trouble too much. Folkstyle though he was a monster.

 

Ruth and Askren would be interesting, even with the size difference. I don't think either would be able to turn the other, and the neutral match would be interesting. I would say 2-2 out of 4 for both? Would be a really fun match up to see.

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Are people seriously still doubting Dake? I'd pick him in a 3-2 type match with Askren's points coming from escapes or a reversal. I can't imagine Askren getting a takedown on him unless Dake made a huge error, but that's just me.

 

How is picking askren over Dake "doubting Dake"?? You do realize this is a hypothetical match-up right?? :roll: I love Dake and he is one of my top 5 wrestlers I enjoy watching and route for...actually he is probably no. 3 on my list behind Burroughs and Howe....point being, I don't think anyone on here is "doubting Dake"...rather remembering just how good Askren was. People have short memeories and only think the current wrestlers are amazing and the "best". Ben Askren, like Dake, is one of those once in a lifetime athletes. To say Askren beats Dake in a hypothetical match-up is by no means not giving Dake his due.

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