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jeffr_ideal

Tessari gone

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Is it the coaches or the NCAA, where they are nailing institutions for every infraction? A female golfer gets busted for using university water to wash her car? Come on already. I think the environment created by the NCAA is making these coaches swing far to the right. I agree Ankle and Steamboat, someone's personal religious convictions should not dictate the direction of a publicly funded institution. It is an interesting topic though, worthy of its own thread (which would probably devolve into the old NWT forums).

 

 

The NCAA already commented that the car wash incident was not a violation. The school self-reported it out of caution.

 

I'm not sure on the Tessari situation, but I think it is 10 policy that coaches are required to renew scholarships unless there is some type of cause to pull. And no, legally drinking in a bar out of season does not count as "cause" even if it is team rules to prohibit drinking. Having a disappointing season or a perceived lack of work ethic/commitment are not grounds for removal of funds. Given Ryan's history of honoring scholarships, it's very likely that some type of violation did occur that gave him grounds for the dismissal.

That's an NCAA rule, not B1G policy.

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Alcohol is toxic. Where do you think the word intoxication comes from?

 

 

Actually, you are wrong. Alcohol is only toxic if it is consumed at an extremely high level. Nature has evolved an entire system to break down alcohol and convert it to usable energy sources. If you would like to look into this further, wikipedia is a great resource.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_me ... physiology

 

This decision has nothing to do with Ryan's personal convictions. I think it is pretty obvious that he is trying to establish a wrestling culture at Ohio State.

 

You can't just remove a student athlete's scholarship because he doesn't pan out as a recruit to fit the "culture" that you are trying to establish. I think there is likely some larger disciplinary issue behind this decision than simply drinking and not being motivated.

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Cam was given many chances.

 

He is a great wrestler and in my interactions with him a great kid, so I hope to see him wrestle again and even more hope he doesn't throw away the educational opportunity that can be provided for him.

 

Ultimately I am told this decision was mutual. Until the very end Cam was given an open door to clean up his act and come back or he could leave and the university would release him.

 

He chose not to change his lifestyle, in season fight, alcohol, cigarettes, even a bit of the left-handed kind. Usual kid stuff, yes. Usual stuff that D1 coaches tolerate from their wrestlers, no.

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But they used to tolerate. Why has college wrestling become only the purest of the pure. There are a lot of bad asses out there that might not conform to these strict monastic rules. Do we just discard these folks?

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I have disagreed with plenty of things that Tom Ryan has done since arriving at Ohio State but this is not one of them. He has had to deal with some top kids since his arrival in Columbus that have placed partying in front of wrestling. He is trying to build a championship program and he can't do it if he gives these kids too much latitude in their personal lives. This is not about religion. It's about a head coach trying to create a culture of excellence and having to deal with some kids whose personal choices are not conducive to this atmosphere.

 

For years, the Kent State wrestling program was known for landing Ohio studs, beating weak comp and losing when it mattered. They went over 20 years without a single AA. They were also known for their partying. Jim Andrassy came in, got rid of the partiers, built his program with more dedicated wrestlers and now has a perennial top 25 squad.

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I don't know the details of Tessari's situation but I am a little tired of this holier than thou attitude that I see from quite a few coaches these days. If you are 21 and of legal age, why shouldn't you be able to party a little if you want? Just because it's against a coach's religious beliefs doesn't make it wrong. I don't think any coach, especially one at a publicly funded institution, should hold any athlete to their personal convictions derived from their chosen religion.

 

I hate our society's double standard. Hating on religion for intolerance while themselves being intolerant of religion. Ryan makes his religious beliefs publicly known and suddenly every coaching decision is rooted in them.

 

This decision has nothing to do with Ryan's personal convictions. I think it is pretty obvious that he is trying to establish a wrestling culture at Ohio State. Matt Mcdonough had an awesome quote after winning his 2nd title. He said that wrestling has to be a lifestyle. You have to live it, eat it, breathe it. Ryan absolutely has the grounds to forbit partying if he believes it is detrimental to performance. Which, by the way, it absolutely is. Alcohol is toxic. Where do you think the word intoxication comes from? Even without the alcohol, late nights affect the next morning's training. I applaud Ryan for establishing a standard for his wrestlers. Come to Ohio State with the primary goal of being the best, or get the heck out. Wrestling collegiately is a privilege. It should not be taken lightly. You will have plenty of time to waste partying after your career is over.

 

Intolerance of intolerance is a double negative and therefore cannot equal a negative (in this case, intolerance). Enough with the persecution complex - as a Christian myself I find the constant whining about this issue to be embarrassing and soft. Regardless, that has absolutely zero to do with the point being made. If a kid is 21 and its the off season and he/she is keeping to his/her athletic/academic commitments, its inappropriate to to restrict legal activity based on ones personal religious beliefs at a PUBLIC university. If Ryan wants to impart his version of Christian morals on his athletes, there are a number of private schools that he can be involved with where those rules can be imposed. Sure, most folks don't have an issue with his current stance because their personal beliefs line up pretty closely with Ryans (as mine do), but imagine your kid competing for a coach that has a religion you disagree with, and that coach imposes rules based on his/her beliefs - it wouldn't be good.

 

The bigger issue - the best coaches, in all sports, meet athletes where they are at and get them to buy in. Their athletes want to follow them. I've seen it play out time and time again. On the flip side, I've seen many coaches struggle where they view kids at finished products at 18, 19 or 20. Once its determined that a kid is a "bad" kid, he's gone - to heck with with working through it with them. I have absolutely zero idea what goes on at OSU - zero. But is does seem that Ryan is developing a bit of a track record of not developing the talent in the room, I wonder what the root of the issue is.

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Alcohol is toxic. Where do you think the word intoxication comes from?

 

I was surprised to find out a few years back, that drinking too much water (even filtered and pure) is toxic and will kill you.

 

I think the old adage about enjoying everything in moderation keeps proving itself over and over again.

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I don't need a wikipedia article. I study this stuff. While it is true that alcohol can be used as energy, that fact has nothing to do with whether it is toxic or not. Google "Effects of alcohol on athletic training" and click on the PDF from Princeton. As an energy source, alcohol has 7 calories per gram compared to 4 calories per gram for proteins and carbs. The only macronutrient with a higher ratio is fat (9 calories per gram). Y'all can argue all you want about how it worked for you, or how it is part of the college experience or whatever, but from a competetive perspective it it is fruitless to argue that alcohol is not detrimental to performance.

 

Obviously a coach should not impliment their religious beliefs onto a state sponsored team. My point is that Ryan isn't doing that. Despite what WRfan1 tries to say, it is egregious to blame someone's religious beliefs for a decision that is unrelated.

 

As an ironic side note, you would be hard pressed to find a Christian who doesn't drink alcohol for religious reasons.

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This is not about religion. It's about a head coach trying to create a culture of excellence and having to deal with some kids whose personal choices are not conducive to this atmosphere.

 

Well put

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Alcohol is toxic. Where do you think the word intoxication comes from?

 

I was surprised to find out a few years back, that drinking too much water (even filtered and pure) is toxic and will kill you.

 

I think the old adage about enjoying everything in moderation keeps proving itself over and over again.

 

Chemistry 101 = Alcohol is toxic. Empirical formula C2H6O. Its molecular formula is CH3CH2OH

 

That is exactly why there is small amounts of C2H60 in our beverages. Try pouring beer on a slug in your back yard. We flavor it, color it, sweeten it, yet .... the base ingredient is toxic.

 

And yes de-ionized water in quantity can kill us, yet it's improbable, to say the least.

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Interesting side note to this conversation. When I was younger, I power-lifted competitively and during training I noticed if I had a couple beers the night before a bench workout, I would almost always perform a little better then expected. It got to the point, I would make sure to have a few the night before a competition or an important max session. Not sure if it was the carbohydrates or what but it really did help. I highly recommend anyone stuck at a particular weight to drink a beer or two the night before trying to break out. And no, I don't mean a six pack or mixed in with shots. Beer only (preferably light) and in moderation.

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I don't know the details of Tessari's situation but I am a little tired of this holier than thou attitude that I see from quite a few coaches these days. If you are 21 and of legal age, why shouldn't you be able to party a little if you want? Just because it's against a coach's religious beliefs doesn't make it wrong. I don't think any coach, especially one at a publicly funded institution, should hold any athlete to their personal convictions derived from their chosen religion.

 

Help me out here .... Where does/did religious beliefs, come into this conversation or interview?

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In the 90s, while at OSU, in the fall, before competition, some of the OSU coaches threw a Kegger. It was eye-opening, as I kept my drinking in the closet, for fear of consequences. I soon learned that there is a way to drink and a way to not drink and a way handle yourself, in general. Some guys can't do it, some can. One of the great wrestlers in the NCAA, was a responsible drinker. It really is a way to let off some steam: wrestlers aren't unlike a compressor in that we build up remarkable power and strength and such, but, like a compressor, we need to release some of the built-up by-product. In a compressor this is water. In a wrestler this is stress, emotion, and mental pressure. The most remarkable run in state OH high school history was done by a guy who couldn't walk from drinking a few weeks before hand; but that guy had been training so hard that he almost had to do something to relax and refocus . Myself, I was a tea totaler for years and had moderate success, In the off-season my senior I would often drive alone and hungover to competition, before destroying guys I had trouble with in the previous months. It is weird, actually. So bottom line: I know for a fact that alcohol can be a help, and hurt....I also can rattle off some of the best wrestlers that were able to drink and succeed. Many of these guys are naturals. Many are Russians. Many just do it every once in a while.

 

In Cam's case: this is 100% about becoming too much of a partier, and possibly, not wanting to go back to the wrestler he was, because it seems he has been given the chance. This happens, and we all know it. The pressure gets more and more, and in Columbus, there is a lot of stuff to do that seems important.

 

As this pertains to the Buckeyes though....Man next years team looks to be a lower top ten team, with the chance of being top 2 the following year, and very good the following few years as well. I believe that losing Cam will open up a scholarship, or a partial, so it makes me wonder about the recruiting trail. Need a big big year in recruiting for sure now.

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So the lineup next year is

 

125 Nick Roberts: potential solid or better, but still a question mark.

133 Johnny Dijulius: potential national qualifier or better, but needs to get stronger here.

142 Logan Steiber: AA or National champ unless something changes

149 Ian Paddock: if he gets stronger he could challenge for AA, maybe even top 5ish

157 Randy Languis: BIG question mark here.

165 Josh Demas: Coach refers to an injury that must be serious; if it effects him does he redshirt? Could be AA

174 Mark Martin: Up a weight, but he does show promise. I'd say National Qualifier, may win a couple there.

184 Kenny Courts: Potential AA

197 Nick Heflin: Up two weights, but I see very solid AA, possible top 4.

285 Nick Tavanello: Should make Nationals, but a pretty big Question mark here.

 

Then in 2014 it looks like

125 Roberts or Nathan Thomasello

133 Johnny DiJulius

142 Logan Steiber

149 Hunter Steiber**

157 Hunter Steiber or Bo Jordan

165 Bo Jordan or Josh Demas

174 Josh Demas or Mark Martin or Garcia?

184 Kenny Courts

197 Big recruit whose name I'm forgetting

285 Tavanello

 

That team looks to have 2-4 National Champ possibilities, and potential for 8 AA or so. With quite a few Bonus point scorers in the line-up it could challenge Minnesota, PSU, Ok St, etc for the title.

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I think the old adage about enjoying everything in moderation keeps proving itself over and over again.

 

Yes, "the dose makes the poison" is true for essentially everything when you are only looking at toxicity (it's just a question of how big this dose is). Of course, some other people are bringing up general health and its effect on your ability to perform athletically, which is a completely separate issue from toxicity.

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Chemistry 101 = Alcohol is toxic. Empirical formula C2H6O. Its molecular formula is CH3CH2OH

 

That is exactly why there is small amounts of C2H60 in our beverages. Try pouring beer on a slug in your back yard. We flavor it, color it, sweeten it, yet .... the base ingredient is toxic.

 

And yes de-ionized water in quantity can kill us, yet it's improbable, to say the least.

 

Stupid science always proving things with facts.

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The fact that Tom Ryan has an alcohol policy with his team has nothing to do with his religion. My goodness the things people come up with are downright ridiculous. Mark Cody has a zero tolerance alcohol rule in season and out season for his team........his is not religious either. It's about commitment. Those that choose to wrestle for them know this up front and still choose to sign. If they knowingly break the rules they know they can be released.

Also, scholarships are year to year contracts and at the end of the year they can be renewed or non renewed at whatever percentage the coach chooses whether it be athletic or academic or other team policy related.

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