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superfluidity

7 point tech falls

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Less complications, more wrestling! Less explanations, more wrestling!

 

I believe the way the U.S. interpreted the rules since United 4 Wrestling and at FILA Cadet & University Nationals was the best we can get within the constraints of the rule-making body.

 

And Canada, too.

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Was all in, the way they were interpreted at Fila Cadets, it actually seemed like a wrestling match again and now they change again. They will never get it right, and cadets two two minute periods.

 

Cadets were two 2-minute periods prior to the rule changes, at least in Fargo.

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My first reaction to this was that its complete crap. But on reflection, I'm not really sure.

 

My concern is that matches will end too fast and, as a result, there's an increased likelihood that the victor won't be the better wrestler. You can win with *any* of a 5-point throw, two 3-point moves (even if non-consecutive), or a 7-point difference. Astounding.

 

But on the other hand... if we want rules that increase the excitement of the match, well, these will do that. More wrestlers will go for a 5-pointer, since if it works, match done -- period. Same with 3-point moves. And lets face it, those are by far the most exciting moves to watch in freestyle. Almost all the top guys have them in their arsenal, but few pull the trigger since the risk-reward is too low. Not so now.

 

And while 7 points is a small spread with takedowns now worth 2 points... its also more likely that guys will *go for* the tech under these rules. Lets say you're up 4-0. You see a chance for a 3-point move, but you're not sure if you take it. Under the old rules, you say no way, don't take the risk, and sit on the lead. But now, you know that even though you're winning, you can lose at any time if your opponent suddenly bangs you with a 5-point move. And you know you can end the match, just like that, if you hit that 3-pointer, creating a 7-point spread. Again the risk-reward calculus has changed, and the beneficiary is the fans, who now will see fewer guys sitting on leads, as they'll be eager to close out the match before they get tossed.

 

Give them a chance. Lets see how they play out at WTTs.

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My first reaction to this was that its complete crap. But I'm not really sure.

 

My concern is that matches will end too fast and, as a result, there's an increased likelihood that the victor won't be the better wrestler. You can win with *any* of a 5-point throw, two 3-point moves (even if non-consecutive), or a 7-point difference. Astounding.

 

But on the other hand... if we want rules that increase the excitement of the match, well, these will do that. More wrestlers will go for a 5-pointer, since if it works, match done -- period. Same with 3-point moves. And lets face it, those are by far the most exciting moves to watch in freestyle. Almost all the top guys have them in their arsenal, but few pull the trigger since the risk-reward is too low. Not so now.

 

And while 7 points is a small spread with takedowns now worth 2 points... its also more likely that guys will *go for* the tech under these rules. Lets say you're up 4-0. You see a chance for a 3-point move, but you're not sure if you take it. Under the old rules, you say no way, don't take the risk, and sit on the lead. But now, you know that even though you're winning, you can lose at any time if your opponent suddenly bangs you with a 5-point move. And you know you can end the match, just like that, if you hit that 3-pointer, creating a 7-point spread. Again the risk-reward calculus has changed, and the beneficiary is the fans, who now will see fewer guys sitting on leads, as they'll be eager to close out the match before they get tossed.

 

Give them a chance. Lets see how they play out at WTTs.

 

This is exactly what's wrong with these rules in my opinion. I want less tactics and more pure wrestling. If that puts me in the minority then so be it.

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With a 7 point spread the two takedown and guaranteed 2 per turn is going to destroy people quick who can't defend on bottom. You basically have little chance to regroup unless you are lucky enough to fall near the edge when the turns start. Seems like they want to create a one mess up and its game over mentality which may cause wrestlers to go back to beig very guarded through most of the match. I wouldn't mind there at least being a glimmer of hope that you can recover from one mistake and so it is worth taking a few chances early. Not sure what the best answer is though, either increase point total or end turns after one exposure.

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My first reaction to this was that its complete crap. But I'm not really sure.

 

My concern is that matches will end too fast and, as a result, there's an increased likelihood that the victor won't be the better wrestler. You can win with *any* of a 5-point throw, two 3-point moves (even if non-consecutive), or a 7-point difference. Astounding.

 

But on the other hand... if we want rules that increase the excitement of the match, well, these will do that. More wrestlers will go for a 5-pointer, since if it works, match done -- period. Same with 3-point moves. And lets face it, those are by far the most exciting moves to watch in freestyle. Almost all the top guys have them in their arsenal, but few pull the trigger since the risk-reward is too low. Not so now.

 

And while 7 points is a small spread with takedowns now worth 2 points... its also more likely that guys will *go for* the tech under these rules. Lets say you're up 4-0. You see a chance for a 3-point move, but you're not sure if you take it. Under the old rules, you say no way, don't take the risk, and sit on the lead. But now, you know that even though you're winning, you can lose at any time if your opponent suddenly bangs you with a 5-point move. And you know you can end the match, just like that, if you hit that 3-pointer, creating a 7-point spread. Again the risk-reward calculus has changed, and the beneficiary is the fans, who now will see fewer guys sitting on leads, as they'll be eager to close out the match before they get tossed.

 

Give them a chance. Lets see how they play out at WTTs.

 

This is exactly what's wrong with these rules in my opinion. I want less tactics and more pure wrestling. If that puts me in the minority then so be it.

 

I do too, but when you're on the brink of elimination of the Olympics, suddenly the opinion of fans who aren't already diehard wrestling purists becomes more important.

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I actually think the one five and two threes actually diminishes the likelihood of throws. Kids just won't wrestle from positions where a throw is likely to occur. Kids will back out, flee, and I think it promotes the so called negative wrestling. Although my opinion does not matter, and I am not sure who's opinion does matter anymore.

 

Not trying to be super negative I just loved seeing where the rules seemed to be going, but I was way wrong.

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I think these rules we've just seen posted aren't what they meant to post. This looks more like the changes to the docs were made in steps, and an intermediate version got released. I've been known to make that kind of mistake at work (fortunately, only internally).

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One of their stated goals was to make greco-roman and freestyle more different. I don't think they succeeded. As in the past, nearly every rule is the same, scoring is the same, weights are the same, bout length is the same, etc. Even the rulebook is the same.

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One of their stated goals was to make greco-roman and freestyle more different. I don't think they succeeded. As in the past, nearly every rule is the same, scoring is the same, weights are the same, bout length is the same, etc. Even the rulebook is the same.

 

I wouldn't mind how points are scored to be the same in both styles. That makes it easier for the fans to understand. However there does need to be some fundamental differences in techniques and scoring situations used to ensure the two styles are different.

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you cannot legislate scoring. changing the rules will never solve anything long term.

 

wrestling is wrestling. we know what we're getting and no set of rules will ever change things. some guys are exciting, confident, skilled, in shape and get after it. some are cautious, fearful, lack confidence, lack conditioning and will be boring.

 

accept it or start watching basketball. i love this sport for what it is, not what a bunch of guys at fila are trying to make it just to appease the ioc.

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Crap!

 

Just as I was beginning to think sanity was returning...

Truly disappointed. Rule simplification just isn't in their DNA, even though it is the single most important thing to improve interest. You'll have stoppages to pull calculators out, decide sequence of scores to see if two 3s or a 5 end a match or not (does it put a wrestler ahead). I can trail by 6 and battle the full six minutes trying to score a fall. But if I lead by 4 early in the match and give up a 5, now trail by one with lots of time remaining...oh this makes sense...match is over? Same with 3s?

 

I give up. Going back to folk style only. Getting too old to deal with this s#!t again. I'm just going to enjoy actual wrestling. You guys have fun with a "sport" that has no continuity (without which there is little historical significance to current results), and no intention to try to achieve such. I quote a line from the International Wrestling Rules foreword: "Frequently modified and always subject to further modification..." Yippee! (Sarcasm)

 

Buh bye.

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Was all in, the way they were interpreted at Fila Cadets, it actually seemed like a wrestling match again and now they change again. They will never get it right, and cadets two two minute periods.

 

Cadets were two 2-minute periods prior to the rule changes, at least in Fargo.

 

Um, you do know the cadets in Fargo and FILA cadets are two totally different age groups.....right?

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Maybe international wrestling needs to die. Just as stupid as the old rules now. What a bunch of dumb.....! Was pretty excited now this crap. FILA wake the heck up and let actual wrestlers make the rules. And if any actual wrestlers signed off on these rules then shame on you. I will still watch but man I was so excited when actual stamina and offense came back. Now caution and boring matches will be back.

 

 

NCAA D1 title is more impressive than a world title now. This is freakin comical these goons at FILA.

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FILA reminds me of the republicans in our country. Keep coming up with these radical ideas (beliefs) your going to keep losing elections, FILA continue with the confusing rules, and you will kill wrestling... And i have said this countless times FR and GR is too confusing too understand for the average fan cannot understand. Folkstyle has offense and defense which any sports fan can understand... Make folkstyle the international style and you will get more viewers

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Yes, I know they are different ... I've been to every Junior and Cadet Nationals in Fargo since 1999

 

Cadets had two 2-minute periods and Juniors had two 3-minute periods. FILA Cadets stopped having World Championships in either 98 or 99 and were also two 2-minute periods.

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