Who wants a pushout rule

[GockeS 548]

speaking of the pushout... 

a week or so ago,, watched two duals.

in one dual wrestler a pushed wrestler b to the boundary and would not let wrestler b circle back in  wrestler b was called for stalling.

in the other dual the same thing happened but wrestler a was called.

it was my thought that the second ref is right. why has that become a thing of the past 

[Jim L 328]

3 hours ago, Chucktown_Luke said:

I still think we should switch to fight shorts and shirts. The singlet is a barrier of entry for many young athletes determining whether or not to pursue wrestling.

This is starting to happen where I live (New England).  I don't follow a lot of HS wrestling, but I have seen a few tournament highlights this year and probably 30-50% of the teams are wearing two piece uniforms

[jchapman 1,337]

Alex Marinelli votes "yes"

[GockeS 548]

iowa haters:  i hate how iowa just pushes and nothing else

 

also iowa haters: i think we need a pushout point 

[TheHeel 71]

One thing wrestling doesn't need is more rules. The number of rules make the sport inaccessible to a regular person and keep us squarely in niche weirdo sport territory. 

[1032004 1,514]

1 hour ago, GockeS said:

iowa haters:  i hate how iowa just pushes and nothing else

 

also iowa haters: i think we need a pushout point 

if guys knew they'd give up a point for getting pushed out they would try harder to not get pushed out

[jackwebster 329]

I want a push out rule, but one that is slightly different from the FS rule. 

First: I want the mat to have a much larger out of bounds area. There should be 8' - 10' of mat between the circle and the hardwood. Touching the hardwood should be impossible. Teams are already making this change.

Second: To earn the push out point, both wrestlers need to be completely out of bounds. ... like a reverse cylinder rule. This will alllow the wrestler in danger of giving up the push out to work back in.

Third: the offensive wrestler should be able to score even when his opponent is grounded. This stipulation will preserve exciting mat scambles on the edge.

 

[TexRef 113]

6 hours ago, Chucktown_Luke said:

I still think we should switch to fight shorts and shirts. The singlet is a barrier of entry for many young athletes determining whether or not to pursue wrestling.

The numbers don't seem to be climbing since the 2 piece was approved. 

The kids that complained about the singlet are now complaining because they didn't get a 9th place ribbon. 

This sport will never be mainstream in this country and that is fine. In other countries they don't have a 2 piece uniform. 

[Plasmodium 2,304]

I went to a state tournament last weekend.  I didn't see more than 5 non-singlet uniforms.  

[GockeS 548]

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

I want a push out rule, but one that is slightly different from the FS rule. 

First: I want the mat to have a much larger out of bounds area. There should be 8' - 10' of mat between the circle and the hardwood. Touching the hardwood should be impossible. Teams are already making this change.

Second: To earn the push out point, both wrestlers need to be completely out of bounds. ... like a reverse cylinder rule. This will alllow the wrestler in danger of giving up the push out to work back in.

Third: the offensive wrestler should be able to score even when his opponent is grounded. This stipulation will preserve exciting mat scambles on the edge.

 

i like the idea of giving up pushout when  grounded... but i dont think it will preserve the scrambles... who determines who pushed who out in a scramble...

 

[GockeS 548]

yeah.. all the kids that i know that were clamoring for the two piece, still didn't come out when we got the two piece

[jackwebster 329]

42 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i like the idea of giving up pushout when  grounded... but i dont think it will preserve the scrambles... who determines who pushed who out in a scramble...

 

Word. Maybe just make an arbitrary distinction, eg whoever's butt or feet  is closest to the line gets a point or whoever's head's the highest gets the point. These are absurd, but that's the idea.

[D3UC157 165]

‘Push out’ does not sound good. I’m not a fan of the potential of drive the opponent out of bounds without offense tactics. 
 

which makes me wonder if it does get implemented what stipulations get attached?

... I’d foresee a version of the current OoB stalling rules being a part of the ruling. And they are not particularly effective.

[1032004 1,514]

11 minutes ago, D3UC157 said:

‘Push out’ does not sound good. I’m not a fan of the potential of drive the opponent out of bounds without offense tactics. 
 

which makes me wonder if it does get implemented what stipulations get attached?

... I’d foresee a version of the current OoB stalling rules being a part of the ruling. And they are not particularly effective.

It can’t be subjective though.  I think the OOB stalling rule is a good idea in theory but the subjectivity kills it.  A push out rule takes the subjectivity out.

Edited February 25 by 1032004

[gimpeltf 2,084]

One issue with a step-out type rule is that the current out of bounds rules would have to be re-done. Currently you only need to have something over the wrestling area and as soon as one steps out, most of both wrestlers are in by current standards.

[Major Kong 89]

22 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Are you confusing removing subjectvity from folkstyle with replacing folkstyle with freestyle?

I don't see what the point of the post is otherwise....

The point is that watching two guys hang on collar ties for two minutes without a stall call gets boring. At least to me. If there are other ways besides a shot clock to remove subjectivity re: stalling let's consider those as well. 

Edited February 25 by Major Kong

[Wrestle81 83]

Push out rule would be awful for folkstyle wrestling...I would diminish kids ability to get a real takedown..or they would take the 1 point pushout rather than finish a TD.... wrestling should stay with singlets...so what ,if afew fat kids don't want to wear them...come-on! I coached HS wrestling for 35 years kids loved the new singlets. I think I had a handful of kids who didn't like singlets and they were marshmallows

[Plasmodium 2,304]

12 minutes ago, Wrestle81 said:

Push out rule would be awful for folkstyle wrestling...I would diminish kids ability to get a real takedown..or they would take the 1 point pushout rather than finish a TD.... wrestling should stay with singlets...so what ,if afew fat kids don't want to wear them...come-on! I coached HS wrestling for 35 years kids loved the new singlets. I think I had a handful of kids who didn't like singlets and they were marshmallows

Are the grade schoolers that don't like singlets marshmallows as well?

[jp157 549]

Again. People need to get out of the damn bubble of established programs and areas 

[HawkY 112]

Whether pro or anti. You have to be careful not to allow it to become the dominant  strategy in any style of wrestling,  or you've just recreated an inferior version of sumo. No one wants that and it is painful to watch. 

[hammerlockthree 2,637]

2 hours ago, Major Kong said:

The point is that watching two guys hang on collar ties for two minutes without a stall call gets boring. At least to me. If there are other ways besides a shot clock to remove subjectivity re: stalling let's consider those as well. 

shot clock is as subjective as anything else

[hammerlockthree 2,637]

60/40 in favor so far

[HoundedHawk 83]

4 hours ago, Wrestle81 said:

Push out rule would be awful for folkstyle wrestling...I would diminish kids ability to get a real takedown..or they would take the 1 point pushout rather than finish a TD.... 

If they had a step out like in freestyle you could still get the TD when going out.

It's a fact the step out hasn't hurt freestyle, and has yielded more action.

Watching people constantly leave the mat with no repercussions sucks.  

[Jim L 328]

16 hours ago, GockeS said:

yeah.. all the kids that i know that were clamoring for the two piece, still didn't come out when we got the two piece

This is a bad take.  Around me, there are lots of schools that now have wrestling teams that did not when I was in HS.  Most of them seem to be wearing the two piece uniforms.

Whether or not you believ the two piece is going help grow the sport, surely you can't believe that it will hurt wrestling. Kids are not going to stop coming out for wrestling because they can't wear a singlet?

 

[JeanGuy 147]

10 hours ago, HoundedHawk said:

If they had a step out like in freestyle you could still get the TD when going out.

It's a fact the step out hasn't hurt freestyle, and has yielded more action.

Watching people constantly leave the mat with no repercussions sucks.  

Has it really led to more action? I see matches all the time that someone is fighting for a takedown then realizes they might not get it so they force the other wrestler out of bounds. Same from the defensive wrestler that feels the take down is imminent so they get out of bounds. For better or worse wrestling will always struggle with this unless you go to judging like boxing. You have pins or opinions and that would be a disaster.

I like the edge wrestling that the cylinder rule allows. We get to see some great flurries on the edge.

Adjusting the ride criteria is something that is more realistic. No turn in 30 seconds reset on feet. Then only award a riding point if it gets to two minutes.

Edited February 25 by JeanGuy