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NJDan

If Max Dean Had Not Quit Cornell

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2 minutes ago, ChicagoHawk said:

It’s not hard to add 18-20-25 points to Cornell’s ncaa projections.    And take same # away from psu

Not that simple as you also have to subtract the points for Cornell's current 184 or 197, who are both good, and you have to give PSU points back after subtracting Dean's. That said, the math is doable; I was just asking a question.

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54 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Not that simple as you also have to subtract the points for Cornell's current 184 or 197, who are both good, and you have to give PSU points back after subtracting Dean's. That said, the math is doable; I was just asking a question.

what do you do about the mythical points Beard may have scored for PSU?  starting to believe you and Cinnabon are the same person.

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2 minutes ago, Better Call Stall said:

Based on his post-match interview, he sounds very happy at PSU but style and personality wise he carries himself like a prototypical Iowa wrestler. Reminds me a little of Metcalf.

So you are saying he sounds like a thug?

 

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On 3/6/2022 at 9:06 PM, NJDan said:

Not that simple as you also have to subtract the points for Cornell's current 184 or 197, who are both good, and you have to give PSU points back after subtracting Dean's. That said, the math is doable; I was just asking a question.

Sounds like you already have it figured out. 

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Honestly Cornell is much worse than I thought they would be this year. Even with Dean they probably wouldn’t make the podium. They were supposed to be title contenders, but everyone outside their stars isn’t as good as expected.
 

They effectively will score 0 at 133

they didn’t even qualify 141 even though they have the #8 p4p recruit from 2020. 

157 got an at large bid

165 has had flashes of brilliance but has taken a few bad losses. He is unlikely to score any points (maybe 2?)  #10 class of 2019.

174 Granted he has a concussion, but his regular season was full of ups and downs. Probably 2 points. 
 

184 up and down. Could AA but unlikely. He has improved. Bright spot for the team

197 Another high level recruit (#15 class of 2019) who lost twice at EIWAs to people he beat this season. He could AA, but he is trending downward.

285 again underperforming expectations. He was #61 in the class of 2019, so qualifying is a about as expected, but there was a ton of hype for him after his freshman year. 
  
cornell may only get AAs from their 2 lock weights (125 and 149). That would be a terrible performance for a supposed title contending team

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On 3/6/2022 at 10:50 PM, NJDan said:

Where would Cornell now be in the rankings if it had Mad Max at 184 or 197?

No different, as his unwillingness to get vaccinated would have kept him off the team completely.

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11 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Honestly Cornell is much worse than I thought they would be this year. Even with Dean they probably wouldn’t make the podium. They were supposed to be title contenders, but everyone outside their stars isn’t as good as expected.
 

They effectively will score 0 at 133

they didn’t even qualify 141 even though they have the #8 p4p recruit from 2020. 

157 got an at large bid

165 has had flashes of brilliance but has taken a few bad losses. He is unlikely to score any points (maybe 2?)  #10 class of 2019.

174 Granted he has a concussion, but his regular season was full of ups and downs. Probably 2 points. 
 

184 up and down. Could AA but unlikely. He has improved. Bright spot for the team

197 Another high level recruit (#15 class of 2019) who lost twice at EIWAs to people he beat this season. He could AA, but he is trending downward.

285 again underperforming expectations. He was #61 in the class of 2019, so qualifying is a about as expected, but there was a ton of hype for him after his freshman year. 
  
cornell may only get AAs from their 2 lock weights (125 and 149). That would be a terrible performance for a supposed title contending team

Yeah, we all should have expected that two of their best guys would get concussions, that their NCAA finalist at 184 would transfer because he's anti-vaxx, and their 2xAA at 197 would be injured and not compete this year.

Quote

everyone outside their stars isn’t as good as expected.

You were expecting last year that Loew would be the EIWA champion at 184 this year?  You'd be the only one (outside of Loew and his mom, and possibly Coach Grey).  Tough crowd.

Who did you expect Fernandes to beat that he didn't beat this year?  Going backwards in time, he lost to Wood (#7), Hillger (#14), Hendrickson (current #6), Traxler (#11), and Kerkvliet (#4).  Seriously, what were your expectations here?  And this *is* his freshman year, as far as competition is concerned.

Replace Loew, as good as he is, with Dean (likely finalist), and replace Cardenas, good as he is, with possible finalist Darmstadt, and get back to us on where they would have finished.  (hint:  add some 30 points to their team score, which puts them solidly on the podium)
 

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1 hour ago, klehner said:

Yeah, we all should have expected that two of their best guys would get concussions, that their NCAA finalist at 184 would transfer because he's anti-vaxx, and their 2xAA at 197 would be injured and not compete this year.

You were expecting last year that Loew would be the EIWA champion at 184 this year?  You'd be the only one (outside of Loew and his mom, and possibly Coach Grey).  Tough crowd.

Who did you expect Fernandes to beat that he didn't beat this year?  Going backwards in time, he lost to Wood (#7), Hillger (#14), Hendrickson (current #6), Traxler (#11), and Kerkvliet (#4).  Seriously, what were your expectations here?  And this *is* his freshman year, as far as competition is concerned.

Replace Loew, as good as he is, with Dean (likely finalist), and replace Cardenas, good as he is, with possible finalist Darmstadt, and get back to us on where they would have finished.  (hint:  add some 30 points to their team score, which puts them solidly on the podium)
 

I specifically said Loew did a great job. 
  
The fact is, Cornell, even with excellent recruits in their lineup, hasn’t turned them into AA calibre guys outside of Vito and Yianni. In fact, some of those high level recruits needed at large bids. 
  
I expect recruits like that to pull off upsets. 
  
As a Cornell fan, you can’t be happy with their EIWAs or their season. They significantly underperformed expectations. If they can turn it around at NCAAs that would be great. 

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21 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I specifically said Loew did a great job. 
  
The fact is, Cornell, even with excellent recruits in their lineup, hasn’t turned them into AA calibre guys outside of Vito and Yianni. In fact, some of those high level recruits needed at large bids. 
  
I expect recruits like that to pull off upsets. 
  
As a Cornell fan, you can’t be happy with their EIWAs or their season. They significantly underperformed expectations. If they can turn it around at NCAAs that would be great. 

Isn't most of the alleged underperformance due to concussions to Foca and Ramirez. Had those concussion not happened the EIWA score would not have been close.

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17 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I specifically said Loew did a great job. 
  
The fact is, Cornell, even with excellent recruits in their lineup, hasn’t turned them into AA calibre guys outside of Vito and Yianni. In fact, some of those high level recruits needed at large bids. 
  
I expect recruits like that to pull off upsets. 
  
As a Cornell fan, you can’t be happy with their EIWAs or their season. They significantly underperformed expectations. If they can turn it around at NCAAs that would be great. 

So, Loew is one of "their stars"?  The guy who a year ago wasn't expected to be a starter?

Lajoie needed an at-large bid:  he isn't one of those "high level recruits," but finished ahead of his seed at EIWA and *earned* that NCAA slot.

Hunter Richard was another guy who wasn't expected to be a starter (behind either or both of Saunders, Yapoujian, both out with injuries), but he *earned* that NCAA slot.

Foca got a concussion, else he was a shoo-in for a qualifying slot.  You know that.

As a Cornell fan, I was overall happy with their season (barely losing to Penn State and Wisconsin?  I'll take that) and their performance at EIWA, with the exception of Ramirez who is obviously not the same after his concussion and Cardenas who had inexplicable losses.

No comment on the loss of Dean and Darmstadt?  Or what were your expectations for Fernandes that weren't met?

Do you remember when pre-concussion Ramirez beat Griffith?  Not AA caliber?  How about when pre-concussion Foca lost to then-undefeated NCAA champions Lewis and Starocci by the thinnest of margins?  Not AA caliber?

You just like to throw shade, it seems.

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3 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Isn't most of the alleged underperformance due to concussions to Foca and Ramirez. Had those concussion not happened the EIWA score would not have been close.

Of course.  Foca getting dinged this weekend was a ~15 point swing with Penn.

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On 3/6/2022 at 9:50 PM, NJDan said:

Where would Cornell now be in the rankings if it had Mad Max at 184 or 197?

Why not just go with "If Stanford had not dropped their program and China had not ... well ... you know?"

 

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2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Honestly Cornell is much worse than I thought they would be this year. Even with Dean they probably wouldn’t make the podium. They were supposed to be title contenders, but everyone outside their stars isn’t as good as expected.
 

They effectively will score 0 at 133

they didn’t even qualify 141 even though they have the #8 p4p recruit from 2020. 

157 got an at large bid

165 has had flashes of brilliance but has taken a few bad losses. He is unlikely to score any points (maybe 2?)  #10 class of 2019.

174 Granted he has a concussion, but his regular season was full of ups and downs. Probably 2 points. 
 

184 up and down. Could AA but unlikely. He has improved. Bright spot for the team

197 Another high level recruit (#15 class of 2019) who lost twice at EIWAs to people he beat this season. He could AA, but he is trending downward.

285 again underperforming expectations. He was #61 in the class of 2019, so qualifying is a about as expected, but there was a ton of hype for him after his freshman year. 
  
cornell may only get AAs from their 2 lock weights (125 and 149). That would be a terrible performance for a supposed title contending team

To be fair the title talk was back when they were suppose to have Dean and Darmstadt manning 184 and 197 as 2 title contenders.  There was hope that their new star recruits would supplement 4 proven stars to create a contender.  Once Dean left and Darmstadt was out due to injury the chances of Cornel being a trophy team was pretty much gone.

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On 3/6/2022 at 11:06 PM, NJDan said:

Not that simple as you also have to subtract the points for Cornell's current 184 or 197, who are both good, and you have to give PSU points back after subtracting Dean's. That said, the math is doable; I was just asking a question.

Then do the math?

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1 hour ago, klehner said:

So, Loew is one of "their stars"?  The guy who a year ago wasn't expected to be a starter?

Lajoie needed an at-large bid:  he isn't one of those "high level recruits," but finished ahead of his seed at EIWA and *earned* that NCAA slot.

Hunter Richard was another guy who wasn't expected to be a starter (behind either or both of Saunders, Yapoujian, both out with injuries), but he *earned* that NCAA slot.

Foca got a concussion, else he was a shoo-in for a qualifying slot.  You know that.

As a Cornell fan, I was overall happy with their season (barely losing to Penn State and Wisconsin?  I'll take that) and their performance at EIWA, with the exception of Ramirez who is obviously not the same after his concussion and Cardenas who had inexplicable losses.

No comment on the loss of Dean and Darmstadt?  Or what were your expectations for Fernandes that weren't met?

Do you remember when pre-concussion Ramirez beat Griffith?  Not AA caliber?  How about when pre-concussion Foca lost to then-undefeated NCAA champions Lewis and Starocci by the thinnest of margins?  Not AA caliber?

You just like to throw shade, it seems.

Ramirez has been up and down. 
 

were your Fernandes expectations met? He was supposed to be the first Cornell hvwt AA. He is underperforming those (lofty) expectations, but when you wrestle for a title contender, the expectations are high. 
 

The loss of Darmstadt shouldn’t matter because Cardenas, a top recruit, should be able to slide in. He still might but his conference performance was way below expectations. 
 

Foca also had a worse season than expected. He took some losses I did not expect. 
  
You are taking this the wrong way. I expected Cornell to contend. They had the lineup on paper to do it. Instead, going into NCAAs they only have 2 locks to AA. The rest of the lineup (some due to injury, some due to underperformance) isn’t expected to AA. Going into this season I thought by ncaa time, Cornell would have likely AAs at 125, 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 197 and maybe hvwt.  7-8. If they had 5 right now, that would be about on par (there are always some injuries). To me this looks like underperformance. This doesn’t include Max Dean, as he wasn’t on the team this year. 

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