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zhawk

NCAA proposal would radically alter championships structure

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"Peaking" is not a specific type of training, or for a limited time period. It discribes preparing in order to achieve best results during the specified period. That may be preparing for a one day, one race 100 meter event. It may be preparing for a two day decathlon, an NBA playoff run (over a month), or a cross continent bike race. You simply have to change the training to "peak" for the time frame needed. If there are breaks or not, stratagem will be devised to maximize performance for the defined period.

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I'll believe that people do peak in some sports...track & field and swimming & diving most notably, where competitors only have to hit their marks or times once prior to NCAA's...in wrestling, I really don't think the peak is anything more than subtle.

 

Also, it's more physiological the physically. IMO... A 2-3 day tournament is a grind, not only on the body, but more-so the brain!! There are NO easy matches at the NCAA's .. well maybe a couple, but u guys know what I mean.

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I absolutely love this idea. The dual meets have to matter for our sport to survive.

 

Sorry, but that's BS -and this idea sucks. So kids from the 3/4 of the schools that don't make the dual tourney just sit around and wait 3 weeks while everyone else wrestles? This is a great recipe to end up with 24 schools left in DI wrestling. ADs from schools with minimal commitment to the sport will love this idea, as they use their lack of competitiveness as a reason to cut a program and funnel the money into football facilities.

 

One could make just as good an argument that the future of wrestling involves getting more non-traditional wrestling schools to consider adding the sport, and that spending money to wrestling one match, where a team could just as easily use that date for a tournament to wrestle 2, 3, or 4 matches, thus saving money, is a much better plan. It may be that the future is to move to a 10 date season, like football, where multiple matches are wrestled on each Saturday . If those dates include duals, fine, but if not, I'd say its time to wave good bye to dual meets altogether. Outside of a handful of schools, they are very poorly attended anyway.

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wr ........ get rid of duals in favor of tourneys, VERY interesting thought! As a wrestler I really hated making weight for a dual. If you pinned your opponent quickly it felt like you got cheated for the effort. Weird thinking maybe but it was how i felt at the time. I loved the tournament format as a competitor.

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wr ........ get rid of duals in favor of tourneys, VERY interesting thought! As a wrestler I really hated making weight for a dual. If you pinned your opponent quickly it felt like you got cheated for the effort. Weird thinking maybe but it was how i felt at the time. I loved the tournament format as a competitor.

 

Don't know about you, but I neither myself or any of my teammates cared for duals - sure we wanted to win, but a tournament, any tournament meant more than a dual. To me, duals are an outdated form of competition left over from an age where transportation didn't easily allow 15 teams to get together every weekend.

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For those teams that do not qualify for the NCAA Dual concept, how about a NIT like tourney for those on the outside? It worked and still works in basketball.

 

Some teams might be more likely to have success in that tourney, creating excitement on campus, for the administration and also for the kids on the teams.

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Am I the only one that really likes this idea? Seems like it would build the suspense and perhaps make the tournament more exciting from a team perspective e.g. Can penn st score enough bonus to overcome their 3rd place duals finish? I guess I don't understand how this is a bad thing from a fan's perspective.

 

Also, in this thread we've heard: a) you can't peak for such a long period of time and b) are the teams that don't make the dual tourney just supposed to sit around?

Well it can't be both...by that logic the teams who don't make it are at an advantage because their wrestlers are training to peak while everyone else is knocking heads at the duals. PAC 12 tourney is almost 3 weeks before NCAAs and I haven't heard anyone clamoring for that to change.

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i think this is a great idea too. trying new things is a good idea. its not like you dont get to keep the sports history. that never goes away (hence, "history").

 

anything that emphasizes the team is good. to find the right mix, i would do everything until the team is obviously over emphasized, then dial it back a bit to proper level. its not like wrestling will ever stop being an individual sport no matter how the formats are changes. not until they allow tag-teams anyway.

 

if you think the current system it perfect, great, im glad you enjoyed all those years of perfection. now its time to change things up to see if we can grow the sport again.

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You anti dual people better come up with a dual solution you like and lobby for it because the reality is that duals are the wave of the future and each and every year there will be a proposal for duals it will happen duals will mean more and they will be important if a team wants to be an ncaa champion

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presented the revised model that would enable teams to accumulate points through a 24-team dual tournament that they could carry into the individual NCAA Championships.

 

I understand what they are trying to accomplish, yet I am a bit concerned regarding additional points from a different tournament added onto the team scores before they even start the NCAA individual Tournament.

 

SO for example, OK State wins the duels event, and they get extra points applied to their score at the NCAA's above and beyond what their wrestlers actually earn in the tournament? And those extra duel points are just enuf to edge out another team that actually had a better NCAA tournament, then they did in the duels??

 

IMO, the individual NCAA tournament is the purest form of a Championship "contest" that there is. Why is it, that the High Schools can mange to pull it off by running two Championships? Dual, and Individual?

 

So our Duals tournament sucks? Because it can't generate enuf interest or revenue, so we bastardize the CLASSIC NCAA event?

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I'd like to see short, meaningful events (dual meets) increased and all-day events (tournaments) reduced. I wouldn't mind if there were conference tourneys and the national tourney, and that's it.

 

As a spectator, I do not have all day (or all weekend) to watch a tournament. If you want to sell more tickets to me and my family, then you need to make dual meets much more important (and thus more desirable to watch) and not group them together into dual meet tournaments. I want to show up after work, bring my wife and kids, sit in the stands, eat some dippin' dots, root for the home team, and go home.

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You guys keep rearranging desk chairs on the Titanic. I'm down with anything to try to keep it afloat, and that makes duals, the easiest format to understand area for new fans and the thing that makes up a HUGE chunk of our seasons, a more integral part of choosing our champion.

 

And to whoever said that the format reduces the likelihood of the "best team" winning, who cares? Other sports don't. Were the Ravens the best team in the NFL this year? If the Spurs win the NBA title, were they the best team in the NBA all year? Nope. The goal of most sports is just to determine who wins the event, not to rig it so that the best team wins almost every year.

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You guys keep rearranging desk chairs on the Titanic. I'm down with anything to try to keep it afloat, and that makes duals, the easiest format to understand area for new fans and the thing that makes up a HUGE chunk of our seasons, a more integral part of choosing our champion.

 

And to whoever said that the format reduces the likelihood of the "best team" winning, who cares? Other sports don't. Were the Ravens the best team in the NFL this year? If the Spurs win the NBA title, were they the best team in the NBA all year? Nope. The goal of most sports is just to determine who wins the event, not to rig it so that the best team wins almost every year.

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You guys keep rearranging desk chairs on the Titanic. I'm down with anything to try to keep it afloat, and that makes duals, the easiest format to understand area for new fans and the thing that makes up a HUGE chunk of our seasons, a more integral part of choosing our champion.

 

And to whoever said that the format reduces the likelihood of the "best team" winning, who cares? Other sports don't. Were the Ravens the best team in the NFL this year? If the Spurs win the NBA title, were they the best team in the NBA all year? Nope. The goal of most sports is just to determine who wins the event, not to rig it so that the best team wins almost every year.

If this were posted on Twitter, I'd definitely re-tweet it!

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I don't care for the proposal but I would vote for it since it is a great improvement over the current system.

 

I don't see what peaking matters when all of the top teams will be facing the same issue, they all will have to perform well all of the weeks of the post season. Oklahoma State may have had an advantage if the Big 12 were still qualifying wrestlers but it looks as though they will be merging with other programs to make a super regional event. Every team that wants to win the team title will have to face the same peaking issue.

 

Assuming the points are awarded prior to the NCAA championships, we will still have the updated scores of the team race so all of the people that love that aspect of the event will still be able to enjoy it. What does it matter if all teams start at the individual championships with zero points or start with points carried over from another event?

 

I think people, too often, forget that sports are just made up and we have made the scoring systems out of thin air. I am not trying to engineer a system to ensure that one team wins, or doesn't win, but rather will incentives programs to put more into duals and to work to promote them.

 

For anyone who thinks this system will be too hard on athletes and that an individual athlete will not be able to reach their goal of being a national champion after wrestling in a dual championship against other elite athletes, they are free to attend other schools that will not have them concerned with such issues. I am sure Cal Poly, Gardner-Webb, and Franklin & Marshall would love to add these athletes who are only concerned about their own successes. It certainly would help their programs get more exposure.

 

I really don't think people will notice much of a change if this system is implemented. I think after a few years people will find it to be the new norm and will welcome the added exposure.

 

I do, however, wonder what awards they will give out to the dual and individual champions? We could actually have three different champions. Minnesota wins the Duals, Penn State wins the individuals, and Oklahoma State was runner-up at both and wins the title. How will the announcers at the two events (assume it will be covered by ESPN) explain this scoring?

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I don't care for the proposal but I would vote for it since it is a great improvement over the current system.

 

I don't see what peaking matters when all of the top teams will be facing the same issue, they all will have to perform well all of the weeks of the post season. Oklahoma State may have had an advantage if the Big 12 were still qualifying wrestlers but it looks as though they will be merging with other programs to make a super regional event. Every team that wants to win the team title will have to face the same peaking issue.

 

Assuming the points are awarded prior to the NCAA championships, we will still have the updated scores of the team race so all of the people that love that aspect of the event will still be able to enjoy it. What does it matter if all teams start at the individual championships with zero points or start with points carried over from another event?

 

I think people, too often, forget that sports are just made up and we have made the scoring systems out of thin air. I am not trying to engineer a system to ensure that one team wins, or doesn't win, but rather will incentives programs to put more into duals and to work to promote them.

 

For anyone who thinks this system will be too hard on athletes and that an individual athlete will not be able to reach their goal of being a national champion after wrestling in a dual championship against other elite athletes, they are free to attend other schools that will not have them concerned with such issues. I am sure Cal Poly, Gardner-Webb, and Franklin & Marshall would love to add these athletes who are only concerned about their own successes. It certainly would help their programs get more exposure.

 

I really don't think people will notice much of a change if this system is implemented. I think after a few years people will find it to be the new norm and will welcome the added exposure.

 

I do, however, wonder what awards they will give out to the dual and individual champions? We could actually have three different champions. Minnesota wins the Duals, Penn State wins the individuals, and Oklahoma State was runner-up at both and wins the title. How will the announcers at the two events (assume it will be covered by ESPN) explain this scoring?

Same way they announce the scores at the beginning of Day 2 and explain how they got there, or the same way they announce the standings as of the start of the final table of World Series of Poker events and (completely don't bother to) explain how they got there.

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why is everyone so opposed to the most logical idea of....

 

Nov-Dec Dual Season culminating in Jan 1st Nat'l Duals

 

Jan-March individual season culminating with NCAA's?

 

i guess it makes too much sense, requires too much work, or deviates from tradition too much.

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Increasing importance to duals across the country can help wrestling at so many levels. Perhaps more so in creating interest in the local communities across the country. Realistically, who likes sitting in a gym all day watching some one you root for wrestle for a few minutes, hopefully a few times throughout the day? Sometimes it is painful and most times a real commitment.

 

Attending the NCAA tourney is not available to many; time, travel and money.

 

Does helping with local interest increase the fan base?? Who knows for sure? I think so, and more importantly it is worth the effort.

 

The NCAA Championship attendee fan base is well above forty years old. It is an older and ageing fan base. Many of our best fans who attend are dying off and not being replaced. Studies show that in the next fifteen years the attendance at the D1 tourney can be reduced by forty percent.

 

Today we have 77 D1 Programs with Boston U a future loss. How may college D1 fans will we have if we have 70 programs? 60 programs? 50 programs? 40 programs?

 

How many fans were in the stands at the NCAA gymnastics championships with 15 teams?

 

Duals may create local interest that will translate to a broader interest?

 

I think those on the NCAA committee reviewing this with a realistic vision of what the future will be with out trying change??

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You guys keep rearranging desk chairs on the Titanic. I'm down with anything to try to keep it afloat, and that makes duals, the easiest format to understand area for new fans and the thing that makes up a HUGE chunk of our seasons, a more integral part of choosing our champion.

 

And to whoever said that the format reduces the likelihood of the "best team" winning, who cares? Other sports don't. Were the Ravens the best team in the NFL this year? If the Spurs win the NBA title, were they the best team in the NBA all year? Nope. The goal of most sports is just to determine who wins the event, not to rig it so that the best team wins almost every year.

 

Sometimes Vak does cut through the nonsense to get to the heart of the matter.

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'peaking' is absolutely a real thing.

and it's significant, not subtle.ask any coach

 

Head coach Bauer of Nebraska-Kearney (D 2 powerhouse) absolutely believes in peaking at the end of the season and we trained specifically for that.....to peak at the end when it matters most.

 

 

If you win your conference but then flop at Natl's did you "peak too soon"?

If you flop at conference but then win Natl's did you "peak at the right time"?

 

As soon as you define your terms you see that "peaking" says absolutely nothing.

Analyzing NFL teams post season performance has shown that it doesn't exist except in the minds of sportscasters.

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