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Tofurky

Singlet vs. grappling two piece

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I've not ever competed in a grappling/no gi tournament of any sort, so I am wondering what people who have think about the rash guard shirt/mma shorts or rash guard shirt/vale tudo shorts combo in relation to your ability to get to your ties as opposed to a singlet, issues with them coming untucked, etc. I've watched some of the Grappling WTT videos and other grappling videos and it rarely seems to be an issue, but I hear a lot of people complaining about it. Thoughts? Can a "doublet," for lack of a better term, really work in wrestling? Why or why not? What would improve a "doublet" or should the idea be scrapped altogether?

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I believe you either would need a longer length rash guard or some fastener system to ensure it does not come untucked easily. I know I have to velcro or button my 10 month old childs shirt in between his legs to keep a shirt from coming up, so its possible.. I also believe they would need a slightly tighter cut and shorter fight shorts (not baggy and past the knees) to lesson the chance of clothing grabbing. If those two things come together then the product probably could get more interest of all parties. I especially like this idea for middle school age wrestler who are often discovering the sport for the first time, but the uniform requirements could be just enough to sway the undecided away from it.

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I have competed in a singlet my whole life like many others, and have trained in the rashguard since about 2008 doing many Jiujitsu tournaments. Function wise, the singlet works better for wrestling. Wrestlers are out of touch though. Everyone I train with now, and all of my friends think singlets are "gay" looking. I coach highschool wrestling and work with youth wrestlers and it is a very legitimate concern for young athletes. Anyone who thinks otherwise just simply does not actually talk to 12-16 year old kids.

 

The rashguard is more comfortable for most people. It is way less "gay" looking and is a mainstream piece of workout gear that many average joes wear to go workout. The concerns about them riding up is nonsense. Unless you get them 5x too small, they function basically just like a t shirt. Everyone practices in t shirts and it has never been an issue. The big issue with a rashguard in wrestling is that they are freaking impossible to get a strong gut lock on. They are really slippery, and when two guys are wearing them, you really cant gut wrench at all. This is where the problems lie with FILA. They have zero first hand knowledge of the sport and they make the rules based on theory and what they think is common sense.

 

From an order of fan preference, I would guess it is No shirt>rashguard>singlet

From an order of youth wrestler, it is rashguard>singlet>no shirt

From an elite level, it for sure is no shirt>singlet>rashguard

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From an order of fan preference, I would guess it is No shirt>rashguard>singlet

From an order of youth wrestler, it is rashguard>singlet>no shirt

From an elite level, it for sure is no shirt>singlet>rashguard

 

This seems about right. No reason that there can't be different uniforms for different levels of wrestling.

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Other sports have evolved their gear over time, and wrestling should do the same. Under Armour revolutionized the concept of making ultra-tight spandex bike shorts and shirts (that were considered "gay") to be cool by using ripped NFL athletes to market them and now you see Under Armour and other similar shirts being worn everyday at the gym. Kids that think singlets are "gay" nonetheless have no problem putting on skin tight shirts to workout in. The gear is seen as cool, so there's no reason not to take advantage of it.

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Nice point of view, Matt. Actually, you were the guy I had in mind for a reply when I put this one down as I recently saw one of your grappling videos on youtube where you were wearing rash guard.

 

Anyway, what about revisiting it for American Folk? It seems to be what most guys workout with in the room, so why not a transition to the competition mats? No one need worry about slipping a gut at the youth, high school or collegiate levels and it could be a great remedy to the image issues that constantly plague the sport.

 

Matt, as an aside, are you able to get to a gut with relatively dry rash guard shirts or does it remain almost impossible even then?

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Nice point of view, Matt. Actually, you were the guy I had in mind for a reply when I put this one down as I recently saw one of your grappling videos on youtube where you were wearing rash guard.

 

Anyway, what about revisiting it for American Folk? It seems to be what most guys workout with in the room, so why not a transition to the competition mats? No one need worry about slipping a gut at the youth, high school or collegiate levels and it could be a great remedy to the image issues that constantly plague the sport.

 

Matt, as an aside, are you able to get to a gut with relatively dry rash guard shirts or does it remain almost impossible even then?

 

I think in one vid where I do wear a rashguard against another competitor wearing one, I try a throw and completely slip as a matter of fact.

 

I do not think most guys workout in rashguards at the college level. Most workout in t shirts or no shirts for live wrestling. I think kids wearing rashguards would be no problem whatsoever.

 

Dry rashguards are the most slippery, especially against someone else wearing one that is also dry. Gut wrenches are very hard to do. Our coaches eventually made a rule at the OTC that you have to either practice shirtless or have a singlet. If you showed up in a t shirt or rashguard, you had to leave. Rashguards work just fine in BJJ because you dont have to ever really bodylock or gut wrench, and throws are almost non existant.

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Other sports have evolved their gear over time, and wrestling should do the same. Under Armour revolutionized the concept of making ultra-tight spandex bike shorts and shirts (that were considered "gay") to be cool by using ripped NFL athletes to market them and now you see Under Armour and other similar shirts being worn everyday at the gym. Kids that think singlets are "gay" nonetheless have no problem putting on skin tight shirts to workout in. The gear is seen as cool, so there's no reason not to take advantage of it.

 

I agree

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I have to wonder what happened to the development of this idea since the utter failure of the Double Sport doublet some years ago. Is it the prevalence of Under Armour or the growth of MMA and how it's used there?

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This is where the problems lie with FILA. They have zero first hand knowledge of the sport and they make the rules based on theory and what they think is common sense.

 

Dziedzic NCAA and World Champion.

Mamiashvili- Olympic champion

 

How much time have either men spent wrestling in rashguards? In addition, how much influence do these two men on rule making? If they have, do you think they are the ones that switched to 3 periods, ball grabs, and leg clinches? If so, they are idiots, if not, they have little influence over the rules.

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SInglets have destroyed wrestling, just look at olympics = zero fan revenue- only die hards put up with them and look past them.

 

forget 2 peice- should be just shorts like boxing. that would bring more crowds and get more people interested

 

That is ridiculous.

 

You just completely made that up that singlets have anything to do with wrestling in the Olympics.

 

If you remember we tried the two piece doublet, barely anyone liked it and it went away with a whimper.

 

People like the singlet, if they didn't, it would be long gone by now.

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SInglets have destroyed wrestling, just look at olympics = zero fan revenue- only die hards put up with them and look past them.

 

forget 2 peice- should be just shorts like boxing. that would bring more crowds and get more people interested

 

That is ridiculous.

 

You just completely made that up that singlets have anything to do with wrestling in the Olympics.

 

If you remember we tried the two piece doublet, barely anyone liked it and it went away with a whimper.

 

People like the singlet, if they didn't, it would be long gone by now.

 

I agree that shorts alone is a bad idea. It wasn't all that popular when Real Pro Wrestling was around and I cannot imagine it would be now.

 

In terms of rash guard, with MMA helping to promote more grappling styles, not to mention companies such as Under Armour exploding in popularity in the last decade or so, people are all over that stuff. Double Sports' "doublet" came in just ahead the curve. Had it been introduced a year ago, maybe two, I bet you would have seen more calls to have it included in the sport. It's been almost eight years since this: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/fashi ... d=all&_r=0.

 

Not all people like the singlet and the wrestling leadership in the United States is notoriously conservative on a lot of issues. The singlet being one of them. I can see on the international level it being an issue, as olddirty explained above, but we're not working with a lot of gut wrenches in the U.S. and the opportunity for advances in material design is ample.

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Singlet isn't a big deal. I've never heard anyone say they didn't want to wrestle because of it. The only time I've heard anything close is kids calling wrestling "gay", but that didn't have to do with the uniform. I prefer the singlet too.

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Having recently been a junior high coach I can tell you the issue if wearing a singlet is VERY real. If you THINK that this is false you are completely out of touch with today's youth.

 

The doublet was a great idea but in my opinion the reason for its failure had NOTHING to do with the fact that it wasn't well received. It failed because they were illegal according to NFHS regulations. No school would ever purchase them because there would be no use for them. I had junior high kids who were first time wrestlers look at catalogues with me at school and they almost all said they would rather wear the two piece. Unless the NFHS legalizes them for competition, there's no way they will be successful because no school will buy them especially in today's economic climate.

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I've also coached (in high school) and think any objections people state about the singlet are completely overblown. In fact, I would argue sports seem to be moving toward it (track, cycling, gymnastics, check out swim suits over the past few years) than away from it. They're certainly more comfortable and attractive than when I was wrestling. It is the least of our worries in trying to grow/maintain the sport.

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Singlet isn't a big deal. I've never heard anyone say they didn't want to wrestle because of it. The only time I've heard anything close is kids calling wrestling "gay", but that didn't have to do with the uniform. I prefer the singlet too.

 

I coached kids wrestling for four years and a lot of them didn't want to wrestle because of the singlet. Most of those kids asked if they could wear shorts and t-shirt, and some even quit as a result of things relating to body image. I can't speak to your experiences, but it sounds as though yours were uncommon, especially for boys between the ages of 12 and 16.

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I've also coached (in high school) and think any objections people state about the singlet are completely overblown. In fact, I would argue sports seem to be moving toward it (track, cycling, gymnastics, check out swim suits over the past few years) than away from it. They're certainly more comfortable and attractive than when I was wrestling. It is the least of our worries in trying to grow/maintain the sport.

 

I don't agree with the notion that sports such as cycling and swimming are moving towards singlets. Swimming moved to a one piece body piece to cut down on natural drag in the water and then, I believe, it was banned shortly after being used. Cycling shirts, by and large, still have sleeves and v neck lines, but they're not a one piece uniform.

 

As Jason Bryant mentioned, it is an issue for kids, especially in the U.S. If you're not a physically fit kid come junior high, you better believe that comments will be made. Hell, I had kids who were teammates of some un-athletic kids who would poke fun at their "man boobs" in a singlet or how skinny another guy was. Exposing yourself at that age is not easy in modern culture.

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Wearing a singlet exposes far less than what the kids wear for other sports... barely anything gets covered by swimmers trunks.

 

Youth kids already get to practice and compete in shorts and t-shirts right now so I don't see the big deal. But I wouldn't disagree with allowing the option of either a singlet or the spandex shorts/shirt that college guys practice in.

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Singlet isn't a big deal. I've never heard anyone say they didn't want to wrestle because of it. The only time I've heard anything close is kids calling wrestling "gay", but that didn't have to do with the uniform. I prefer the singlet too.

 

I coached kids wrestling for four years and a lot of them didn't want to wrestle because of the singlet. Most of those kids asked if they could wear shorts and t-shirt, and some even quit as a result of things relating to body image. I can't speak to your experiences, but it sounds as though yours were uncommon, especially for boys between the ages of 12 and 16.

 

My first coaching job was at a high school that hadn't had a wrestling program for 4 or 5 years, so we were starting with a bunch of kids who'd never wrestled before. Only one kid ever had an issue with the singlet, but it wasn't because he didn't want to wear it, it was because he would constantly forget his equipment. He was a backup, but at various times he forgot his shoes, singlet, headgear. I think his parents made him wrestle against his will or something. I just don't think he wanted to wrestle period.

 

My experiences with it are pretty different. Nobody I wrestled with ever took an issue with it. Hell one heavyweight I knew once told me he liked the singlet because it meant he could show off a clearly defined part of his anatomy to any women who might be watching. I had some kids who liked it so much they would practice in theirs. Some kids I coached at another school didn't like it because they felt the top part of it got in the way and asked me why they couldn't wrestle with the straps down. That's even less than what a singlet has to offer as far as coverage.

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