Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
NJDan

Cornell's Rise

Recommended Posts

Cornell had a good, but not unexpected, performance at the EIWA. Looks like it just got a nice bump in the rankings, though.

Now number 6 on both Flo and Intermat! I don't think it was higher than 10 or maybe 9 all year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Cornell had a good, but not unexpected, performance at the EIWA. Looks like it just got a nice bump in the rankings, though.

Now number 6 on both Flo and Intermat! I don't think it was higher than 10 or maybe 9 all year.

I don't think they have wrestled well. Obviously Yianni and Vito are gonna do what they are gonna do, but I was curious how Foca Ramirez, Cardenas would fair. Those are talented guys, big recruits and they've been kind of mediocre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I don't think they have wrestled well. Obviously Yianni and Vito are gonna do what they are gonna do, but I was curious how Foca Ramirez, Cardenas would fair. Those are talented guys, big recruits and they've been kind of mediocre.

Concussions will do that (in two of those cases).  Have Loew and Fernandes not wrestled well?

(deja thread)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flo puts Cornell 10 points behind NC State. If Foca and Ramirez can literally get their heads together, I would think they can gain 10 points and put Cornell in 5th. 

BTW, is 5th Place on "the podium"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NJDan said:

Flo puts Cornell 10 points behind NC State. If Foca and Ramirez can literally get their heads together, I would think they can gain 10 points and put Cornell in 5th. 

BTW, is 5th Place on "the podium"?

Top 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NJDan said:

Flo puts Cornell 10 points behind NC State. If Foca and Ramirez can literally get their heads together, I would think they can gain 10 points and put Cornell in 5th. 

BTW, is 5th Place on "the podium"?

Does Flo say how they come up with their predictions (I am no longer a subscriber or I would check myself)? I as because I have COR 18 points behind NCST if they both wrestle to their seeds. I am not including bonus point estimates, just placement and advancement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Does Flo say how they come up with their predictions (I am no longer a subscriber or I would check myself)? I as because I have COR 18 points behind NCST if they both wrestle to their seeds. I am not including bonus point estimates, just placement and advancement.

Here's a quote from the Flo people to lead up to their forecast, "Team points are calculated using hypothetical tournament points based on individual weight class rankings. Dual meet results are not factored into the rankings, nor are subjective opinions considered. "

I think the difference between your numbers and Flo's is due to you are using the seeded number and Flo is using the ranked number.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DanGerMan said:

Here's a quote from the Flo people to lead up to their forecast, "Team points are calculated using hypothetical tournament points based on individual weight class rankings. Dual meet results are not factored into the rankings, nor are subjective opinions considered. "

I think the difference between your numbers and Flo's is due to you are using the seeded number and Flo is using the ranked number.

Thank you. I also do an expected points total based on historical average points scored by seed. That puts COR only 15 behind NCST. But again, with no bonus.

P.S. Love the user name is it Dan German, Danger Man, Dan Man (middle name Ger)? It's all of them and none of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, klehner said:

Concussions will do that (in two of those cases).  Have Loew and Fernandes not wrestled well?

(deja thread)

I was not aware of the concussion thing. Who were the cases?

Loew has been good, Fernandes I am not impresed with, it might just be that whenever you bring him up a bunch of people talk about how he was this New Jersey juggernaut...then he throws a really ugly leg ride and I tend to think he was just muscling fat kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

I was not aware of the concussion thing. Who were the cases?

Loew has been good, Fernandes I am not impresed with, it might just be that whenever you bring him up a bunch of people talk about how he was this New Jersey juggernaut...then he throws a really ugly leg ride and I tend to think he was just muscling fat kids.

Ramirez was 16-3 when he was concussed on 1/29 against Columbia; he's 3-4 since.

Foca was 20-4 when he was (apparently) concussed on 2/6 against Drexel;  he was hit again in the EIWA semi-finals and MFFed to sixth place.

Fernandes' leg ride may be ugly, but it worked towards thirteen bonus victories this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, klehner said:

Ramirez was 16-3 when he was concussed on 1/29 against Columbia; he's 3-4 since.

Foca was 20-4 when he was (apparently) concussed on 2/6 against Drexel;  he was hit again in the EIWA semi-finals and MFFed to sixth place.

Fernandes' leg ride may be ugly, but it worked towards thirteen bonus victories this year.

fair enough. Maybe I should have been more careful, Cornell is actually my favorite team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ESPN only archives college sports for 30 days, so the Ramirez match is gone. But my description best as I can recall it is:

Ramirez was up 3-1 on Ogunsanya early in the second when they butted heads (accidental). Ramirez got checked out by the trainer and must talk a good game or chose the set of fingers in the middle because he got cleared. He even scored the next takedown to go up 5-1, but Ogunsanya got out and then got a takedown of his own and basically as the call was being confirmed Ramirez was calling the trainer back. He then skipped Navy later that day. He came back for the Princeton dual but clearly wasn't himself and then took off another 2 weeks (skipping Penn, Drexel and Binghamton) before coming back for the Wisconsin dual.

As for Foca, on 2/6 he was down 2-1 early in the first period against O'Malley in the Drexel dual when they banged heads and he dropped to his knees and called over the trainer. He didn't wrestle again until this weekend and made it to the semis before cracking heads with Incontrera and MFF down to 6th. Unclear if he's going to wrestle in Detroit but Coach Grey was optimistic (but also said it was up to the medical staff).

Fernandes' worst non-injury/MFF losses this year are to 2x AA Hillger and 2x R12 Traxler. He has 7 pins, 2 techs and a lot of *shutouts* so my guess is that his ride and crank are pretty solid. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Thank you. I also do an expected points total based on historical average points scored by seed. That puts COR only 15 behind NCST. But again, with no bonus.

P.S. Love the user name is it Dan German, Danger Man, Dan Man (middle name Ger)? It's all of them and none of them.

 

 

Edited by DanGerMan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ugarte said:

 

As for Foca, on 2/6 he was down 2-1 early in the first period against O'Malley in the Drexel dual when they banged heads and he dropped to his knees and called over the trainer. He didn't wrestle again until this weekend and made it to the semis before cracking heads with Incontrera and MFF down to 6th. Unclear if he's going to wrestle in Detroit but Coach Grey was optimistic (but also said it was up to the medical staff).

Wow, I didn't know that-it explains a lot.  "Banged heads."  For him to miss so much time after 2/6 it he must have been in the concussion protocol, right?  One month seems on the short end of returning from a concussion.  If in his first match back, he had to default again, I can't imagine the medical staff would let him wrestle.  This is the type of injury that can impact him for the rest of his life, well beyond anything to do with wrestling. And it's also the type where competing early can have terrible consequences/make things significantly worse. It simply isn't worth it. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Billyhoyle said:

Wow, I didn't know that-it explains a lot.  "Banged heads."  For him to miss so much time after 2/6 it he must have been in the concussion protocol, right?  One month seems on the short end of returning from a concussion.  If in his first match back, he had to default again, I can't imagine the medical staff would let him wrestle.  This is the type of injury that can impact him for the rest of his life, well beyond anything to do with wrestling. And it's also the type where competing early can have terrible consequences/make things significantly worse. It simply isn't worth it. 

I thought something similar tbh. it wasn't his first match - it was day 2 of the tournament - but that's a quibble. I also don't know if the hiatus was entirely due to the protocol because Berreyesa was getting some mat time at 174 as a graduating senior but ... that explains Senior Night in Ithaca more than it explains the Wisconsin road dual. I think Grey is being optimistic; i'm less optimistic for the reasons you stated.

The collision with O'Malley was obviously worse than it looked. Must have caught him right on the temple but until he looked like he was shaking out cobwebs the contact didn't look unusual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ugarte said:

I thought something similar tbh. it wasn't his first match - it was day 2 of the tournament - but that's a quibble. I also don't know if the hiatus was entirely due to the protocol because Berreyesa was getting some mat time at 174 as a graduating senior but ... that explains Senior Night in Ithaca more than it explains the Wisconsin road dual. I think Grey is being optimistic; i'm less optimistic for the reasons you stated.

The collision with O'Malley was obviously worse than it looked. Must have caught him right on the temple but until he looked like he was shaking out cobwebs the contact didn't look unusual.

If the collision was minor as you suggest and he still defaulted, that says to me that he wasn’t fully recovered given that he was only out a month prior. When you’re recovering from a concussion, minor hits have a much greater impact than they otherwise would. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

If the collision was minor as you suggest and he still defaulted, that says to me that he wasn’t fully recovered given that he was only out a month prior. When you’re recovering from a concussion, minor hits have a much greater impact than they otherwise would. 

I agree! But it's also worth noting that Foca was a guaranteed at-large so the "competitive" reasons that can corrupt these decisions were less tempting* than they might have been for, say, LaJoie. Even if Foca and the training staff felt that he could probably still compete at EIWA there was no reason to. I'm only saying this to point out that if Foca goes to Pittsburgh it isn't necessarily because the training staff isn't considering all of the things that we're discussing. 

*No offense to anyone on the Cornell staff; this is about how anyone can have competing priorities and insufficient perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ugarte said:

I agree! But it's also worth noting that Foca was a guaranteed at-large so the "competitive" reasons that can corrupt these decisions were less tempting* than they might have been for, say, LaJoie. Even if Foca and the training staff felt that he could probably still compete at EIWA there was no reason to. I'm only saying this to point out that if Foca goes to Pittsburgh it isn't necessarily because the training staff isn't considering all of the things that we're discussing. 

*No offense to anyone on the Cornell staff; this is about how anyone can have competing priorities and insufficient perspective.

If Foca goes to Pittsburgh, the results of the concussion are obvious. He should be going to Detroit. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...