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NCAA Championships Day 2 Thread: Session III

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1 minute ago, BAC said:

Sounds about right, though I think you're being a bit generous.  Kem was 3rd as a RS freshman back in 2017.  Not sure today's version is much better than that, shoulder aside.  I agree ADS has improved slightly, but he was already a tough out from his Drexel days, and its remarkable how little variation has been added to his offense.  There's no one he used to lose to that he's beating now (and some, like RBY, are the opposite).  Young plateaued, and I think 2019 Eierman/Marinelli beats today's version.

How different is this from most teams though? I would say Iowa is better than most in developing talent. 

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Warner does own a head to head wins over Buchanan from last year's tournament.... but he's Warner, so....

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

Are you sobering up for the semis with Warner?

 

Btw, isn’t it time to delete your Tapatalk sig?

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Warner's wrestling is not aesthetically pleasing. 

But he is 7th/4th/semis-so-far in his three NCAAs. 

He was always a better bet than Marinelli this year.  Like Marinelli he is not aggressive.  But he holds position and is very stingy on his feet, and unlike Marinelli he has a great strength -- his mat wrestling.  Riding out a number 3 seed in a tough quarterfinal is one way to win an important folkstyle match.

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3 hours ago, Grecojones said:

If I was an athlete there I'm not sure I would want hi around. He left our program to wrestle for a powerhouse school wins like 2 matches at the big dance.... Now you're supposed to show me how to get it done.... [Pass]

As long as he isn’t trying to teach them to get off bottom. 

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Are you sobering up for the semis with Warner?
 
Btw, isn’t it time to delete your Tapatalk sig?
You kidding? I'm drinking more.
The injuries that Iowa has may have something to do with running their athletes into the ground. How many of their guys have improved while at Iowa vs regressed/gotten hurt? 
Eierman, Ayala, and Cassioppi got injured in matches. Not really attributable to something Iowa is doing. Kemerer is the only one that happened during training. It's just unfortunate. Marinelli just tightens up like crazy, I think it's fair to attribute that to coaching. Young....well he's just not that great, plus unfortunate that David Carr got dropped into his bracket after the biggest upset of the tournament. But also, mostly he's just only ok. His production for his recruiting ranking is actually a testament to development.

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3 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Come back to that thread when PSU goes 2/6 tonight and Michigan goes 4/5

Michigan's not going 4/5 in the semis:

Suriano - probably
Lewan - maybe
C. Amine - not favored
Massa - maybe
M. Amine - probably

For what you're picking to happen, UM needs to win 2 out 3 matches where they are either a toss up or not favored.  I don't see that happening.

 

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46 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

How different is this from most teams though? I would say Iowa is better than most in developing talent. 

I think Iowa is very very good at developing strength, conditioning, and a forward pressure style but it comes at a price. Tony Ramos said in an interview that UNC was a real culture shock because Coleman has his team spend an inordinate amount of time drilling positions and situational wrestling over and over and over whereas at Iowa practices were light on instruction and drilling, and mostly live gos. I have a vague recollection of Dennis saying the same thing after he came back. That kind of grind has to take a toll.

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6 minutes ago, Better Call Stall said:

I think Iowa is very very good at developing strength, conditioning, and a forward pressure style but it comes at a price. Tony Ramos said in an interview that UNC was a real culture shock because Coleman has his team spend an inordinate amount of time drilling positions and situational wrestling over and over and over whereas at Iowa practices were light on instruction and drilling, and mostly live gos. I have a vague recollection of Dennis saying the same thing after he came back. That kind of grind has to take a toll.

Has a guy ever left one place and not said things were better at the new place?  

Iowa has been undeniably terrible in this tournament.  They were bad for most of this season.  But they won the NCAA tournament last year.  I think it's silly to declare they don't develop guys and they don't drill technique a year after they were NCAA champs.  

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1 hour ago, BAC said:

Likely true.  Most had some improvement initially but seem to have plateaued or, in some cases, regressed.  Who would you take in a dual of the 2019 versions of ADS, Eierman, Young, Marinelli, Kemmerer and their 2022 versions? 

I think ADS is better now. But all the others I’d take 2019 versions. 

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5 minutes ago, Better Call Stall said:

I think Iowa is very very good at developing strength, conditioning, and a forward pressure style but it comes at a price. Tony Ramos said in an interview that UNC was a real culture shock because Coleman has his team spend an inordinate amount of time drilling positions and situational wrestling over and over and over whereas at Iowa practices were light on instruction and drilling, and mostly live gos. I have a vague recollection of Dennis saying the same thing after he came back. That kind of grind has to take a toll.

Where can I see that interview? 

I dont believe that Iowa doesnt drill a lot. Every guy they put on the mat does the basics very well. You are saying Iowa doesnt coach technique well, but under Brands they have only finished lower than 5th one time and second only to PSU in consistency. Think about that for a second. You really believe thats just because of strength and conditioning? You have a very simple view of wrestling.

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It's interesting to see posters believe an obviously injured Eireman, a 2021 B1G10 champ and NCAA finalist, who took the defending 2021 NCAA champ to overtime again this season, was better 4 seasons ago.

Nothing against Mizzu- and he may have improved there as well - but he's gotten better since he arrived in Iowa City.

If “Fatigue makes cowards of us all.”, then injuries make good wrestlers regress...

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There are numerous videos of the Brands working with their guys on technique one on two. Just because the corporate practice isn’t technique heavy, doesn’t mean that guys aren’t getting instruction. I always thought the middle weights were a reflection of Morningstar and his lack of offense. Not an Iowa guy, but I never understood how they kept Morningstar and let Metcalf walk.

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I’m not sure you can say he’s gotten better since leaving Mizzou. I am 1000% sure he bought into the “Iowa style” though. Heard many many stories about him at Mizzou not going to practice and such. He was the home grown 4x undefeated Champ thought he was the big man on campus while there. Fact is, he did make the finals. Could he have done that while still at Mizzou? Absolutely. Winning the MAC with no losses he’s at worst the 2-3 seed and still makes the finals.  He went to Iowa to focus on freestyle as he stated. All the while Mizzou has two world champs and another that dnp on their roster. His wrestling style is and always will be the same. What has he actually gotten better at in Iowa than while at Mizzou?

Edited by Mizzoufan01

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2 minutes ago, Rocep said:

There are numerous videos of the Brands working with their guys on technique one on two. Just because the corporate practice isn’t technique heavy, doesn’t mean that guys aren’t getting instruction. I always thought the middle weights were a reflection of Morningstar and his lack of offense. Not an Iowa guy, but I never understood how they kept Morningstar and let Metcalf walk.

Good assessment although I think Morningstar stuck because he is more likely to play the part of a diligent lackey.  Metcalf has a mind of his own and thats a threat to the management style of Brands bros

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2 minutes ago, PSUSMC said:

It's interesting to see posters believe an obviously injured Eireman, a 2021 B1G10 champ and NCAA finalist, who took the defending 2021 NCAA champ to overtime again this season, was better 4 seasons ago.

Nothing against Mizzu- and he may have improved there as well - but he's gotten better since he arrived in Iowa City.

If “Fatigue makes cowards of us all.”, then injuries make good wrestlers regress...

He was better at Mizzou. 

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1 minute ago, flyingcement said:

Good assessment although I think Morningstar stuck because he is more likely to play the part of a diligent lackey.  Metcalf has a mind of his own and thats a threat to the management style of Brands bros

Agree plus M* is part of Iowa high school royalty and helps recruit the state.

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Iowa is held to an unrealistic standard. They won last year and still get talked about like they are on the brink of collapse.....

.....having said that, I wish they got more assistents from outside the program. Terry is the best light weight coach in the country but they lack in the middle and upperweights.

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2 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

Iowa is held to an unrealistic standard. They won last year and still get talked about like they are on the brink of collapse.....

.....having said that, I wish they got more assistents from outside the program. Terry is the best light weight coach in the country but they lack in the middle and upperweights.

I kind of agree with this.  I know M* is a very good recruiter and I'm not sure how much he actually coaches but you can just see some of his boring style of wrestling in our bigs.  Lack of attacks, just try and play D until someone makes a mistake.  The bull didn't take one good shot in his loss and Warner is one of the most boring wrestlers you will ever see, and this coming from an Iowa homer.

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14 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Agree plus M* is part of Iowa high school royalty and helps recruit the state.

Also he embodies the new Iowa style with how he wrestled. Low scoring, but tough as nails and willing to fight through injuries for the team. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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I think ADS is better now. But all the others I’d take 2019 versions. 


Kind of ignoring that last years Kemerer was by far the best version, and he's hurts this year. Sure 2019 Kem may be better than 2022 Kem, but neither is better than 2021 Kem.

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