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VakAttack

The lack of importance of the team scoring again put on front Street today

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35 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Isn't there an individual tournament in tennis?  If I'm reading correctly I think they actually have 3 tournaments (singles, doubles, team)

Singles bracket: https://www.ncaa.com/_flysystem/public-s3/files/2021-06/21 M Singles 052821[4].pdf

Doubles bracket: https://www.ncaa.com/_flysystem/public-s3/files/21 M Doubles 052821.pdf

Team bracket (2021): https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/tennis-men/d1/2021

 

But I'm sure someone will chime in and say we don't want to be like tennis since they've had more teams cut than wrestling recently...

yes, i was saying that they dont have (at least i dont think) an individual champ in sand volleyball.

i dont think they determine who is the best #1 pair and #2 pair etc

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this is just projection. @TBar1977 saw someone arguing against a format psu dominates and assumed that it's only a ploy to diminish psu's success because that's exactly what HE would do in that scenario. and we know that's what he would do because of his posts last year declaring that psu were the moral victors even though they lost, clearly meant to tamp down enthusiasm for iowa's victory. 

the problem is that he picked the poster with a decade long history of arguing this point lol

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9 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

 

the problem is that he picked the poster with a decade long history of arguing this point lol

 

 

So, in other words, since Cael Sanderson started winning team championships in dominating fashion at Penn State. 

Edited by TBar1977

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2 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

So, in other words, since Cael Sanderson started winning team championships in dominating fashion at Penn State. 

But also posted it when Iowa won...and I'm sure posted in 2015 when OSU won. But when he does it when Iowa and OSU win it is just to victimize PSU.

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I'll stop beating around the bush on this.

The way we score our greatest event ... is freaking stupid.

There's a reason I announce how many points each win is worth at the nationals. I shouldn't have to. It's our greatest event and that type of thing should be understood, just like how many points any scoring action is in  (almost) any other sport. 

 

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Just now, JasonBryant said:

I'll stop beating around the bush on this.

The way we score our greatest event ... is freaking stupid.

There's a reason I announce how many points each win is worth at the nationals. I shouldn't have to. It's our greatest event and that type of thing should be understood, just like how many points any scoring action is in  (almost) any other sport. 

 

so disappointing to see such an esteemed wrestling media member come out as a RABID PENN STATE HATER

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Anyone who thinks PSU wouldn't win the dual championship is a moron. 

 

Wrestling is an individual sport and our success is measured on how we do at tournaments. I, for one, think duals are a waste of resources and weigh ins. 

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2 minutes ago, TheHeel said:

Anyone who thinks PSU wouldn't win the dual championship is a moron. 

 

Wrestling is an individual sport and our success is measured on how we do at tournaments. I, for one, think duals are a waste of resources and weigh ins. 

Not this season, but the initial push for this happened in the 2013-2014 and there was real movement towards changing the national team champ to a dual tournament at that time.  During Cael's first 4 titles at Penn State he did not have an undefeated dual team.  PSU also had stopped participating in the NWCA national duals under Cael.  On the other side were coaches like J Rob who had finished runner up at NCAAs to Cael's PSU twice and 3rd another time.  By the end of 2014 J Rob had not lost to PSU in a dual under the Cael era, had won natoinal duals two straight years (all top 5 team, PSU excepted, attended both), and had been top three at NCAAs three straight seasons.  Their positions on their face seemed to be self serving.  Minnesota with a more complete dual team and PSU had fewer AAs but mostly finalist. 

I seem to remember Brands and Sanderson joining up to oppose the proposal and ultimately no change was made.  Maintaining the status quo was probably viewed as a detriment to Iowa's national title chances at the time as they had beaten PSU in duals in  2010-2011 and 2012-2013, though they haven't beaten a national champion PSU team in a dual since.

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52 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

So, in other words, since Cael Sanderson started winning team championships in dominating fashion at Penn State. 

No, you dope.  The forum migrated to it's current software in 2010.  I didn't join in 2010, I've been on this forum since like 2002.  All the old posts were lost.  Again, not everything is about you or your favorite team, stop embarrassing yourself.

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30 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

I'll stop beating around the bush on this.

The way we score our greatest event ... is freaking stupid.

There's a reason I announce how many points each win is worth at the nationals. I shouldn't have to. It's our greatest event and that type of thing should be understood, just like how many points any scoring action is in  (almost) any other sport. 

 

JB, why do you hate @TBar1977 and his friends?

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1 hour ago, JasonBryant said:

I'll stop beating around the bush on this.

The way we score our greatest event ... is freaking stupid.

There's a reason I announce how many points each win is worth at the nationals. I shouldn't have to. It's our greatest event and that type of thing should be understood, just like how many points any scoring action is in  (almost) any other sport. 

 

Well to be clear, are you saying you want a dual tournament to determine the overall team champion?

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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Well to be clear, are you saying you want a dual tournament to determine the overall team champion?

Ugh, now you are really putting him on the hot seat.  I am not sure if he would be forced to give a politically correct answer.  Admittedly, my interest in this has piqued.  I will eagerly await the reply!

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I'll leave you in suspense. I'll fully flush out my opinions on the topic - and why - on an upcoming Short Time. I'm announcing the Europeans in Budapest right now and feel my position and supporting points on the topic need a lot more context than just what this forum can do. It's NOT politically correct in terms of my working relationships with the NCAA or NWCA. It's my opinion and I have supporting material that again, will fully make sense when you consider everything I bring into the discussion.

My entire premise involves a renovation of the sport, its realignment and its structure at the Division I level specifically. More than I can dive into on this thread at the moment. 

I don't think everyone's going to agree, but the context of my position is key to my formulated opinion. That being said, I prefer a dual meet showing which team (of 10 starters) is better than another team (and its 10 starters). But I do think the scoring metric there needs to change, too. It's all connected. That's my tease. 

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42 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

I'll leave you in suspense. I'll fully flush out my opinions on the topic - and why - on an upcoming Short Time. I'm announcing the Europeans in Budapest right now and feel my position and supporting points on the topic need a lot more context than just what this forum can do. It's NOT politically correct in terms of my working relationships with the NCAA or NWCA. It's my opinion and I have supporting material that again, will fully make sense when you consider everything I bring into the discussion.

My entire premise involves a renovation of the sport, its realignment and its structure at the Division I level specifically. More than I can dive into on this thread at the moment. 

I don't think everyone's going to agree, but the context of my position is key to my formulated opinion. That being said, I prefer a dual meet showing which team (of 10 starters) is better than another team (and its 10 starters). But I do think the scoring metric there needs to change, too. It's all connected. That's my tease. 

I'm watching the European Championships on Flo right now Jason....are you one of the two voices on this, who is the other voice(s)????  (Even though some on here don't like Flo ;-)  )

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9 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

I'm watching the European Championships on Flo right now Jason....are you one of the two voices on this, who is the other voice(s)????  (Even though some on here don't like Flo ;-)  )

I'm the English voice you hear in the background of the arena. Shawn Kenney and Eric Olanowski are on the call for the UWW feed (that's on Flo). 

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2 hours ago, Fishbane said:

Not this season, but the initial push for this happened in the 2013-2014 and there was real movement towards changing the national team champ to a dual tournament at that time.  During Cael's first 4 titles at Penn State he did not have an undefeated dual team.  PSU also had stopped participating in the NWCA national duals under Cael.  On the other side were coaches like J Rob who had finished runner up at NCAAs to Cael's PSU twice and 3rd another time.  By the end of 2014 J Rob had not lost to PSU in a dual under the Cael era, had won natoinal duals two straight years (all top 5 team, PSU excepted, attended both), and had been top three at NCAAs three straight seasons.  Their positions on their face seemed to be self serving.  Minnesota with a more complete dual team and PSU had fewer AAs but mostly finalist. 

I seem to remember Brands and Sanderson joining up to oppose the proposal and ultimately no change was made.  Maintaining the status quo was probably viewed as a detriment to Iowa's national title chances at the time as they had beaten PSU in duals in  2010-2011 and 2012-2013, though they haven't beaten a national champion PSU team in a dual since.

Basically how I remember it. 

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

No, you dope.  The forum migrated to it's current software in 2010.  I didn't join in 2010, I've been on this forum since like 2002.  All the old posts were lost.  Again, not everything is about you or your favorite team, stop embarrassing yourself.

thats why i couldn't find anythikng before 2010 for the other thread 

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On 3/29/2022 at 12:50 PM, 1032004 said:

Haven't you said you wanted to have an official dual tournament but in December or something?

 

I don't think you need more than 8 teams.  So it's 2 more matches.    Going off of a ranking would probably be sufficient.  

Yes, i did. what was proposed in this thread is replacing the current ncaa tournament. which is 1) stupid and 2) will never happen

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On 3/29/2022 at 1:09 PM, VakAttack said:

 

As to the general format, I would say, as somebody suggested above, the top 6-8 teams based on a ranking get in, similar to the current college football system.

 

and you think that is going to be more attended and watched than the individual NCAA tournament? based on what data/information/assumptions?

whose rankings? 

didn't we already have something similar to this at a different time of year ?

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25 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

 

Signed, Vak being Vak

Lol, you just keep saying wrong things and acting as if they're right while trying to play the victim across threads.  You say things as if they're fact when you have literally no knowledge of what you're talking about, accusing people of having ulterior motives, trying to "tamp down" blah blah blah.  Then you went and dragged up the lionize comment AGAIN out of context of the conversation when I've already smacked you down on that by posting the receipts.  If you don't want to be called a dope, don't be a dope.

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On 3/29/2022 at 2:29 PM, GockeS said:

i think a dual tourney, featuring Iowa, Penn St., Michigan, Minnesota, Cornell, Arizona State. NC State, Nebraska, Oklahoma State

would be a full arena if held in the right part of the country.

 

 

five of those teams were in the same building in december. 

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Just now, Husker_Du said:

and you think that is going to be more attended and watched than the individual NCAA tournament? based on what data/information/assumptions?

whose rankings? 

didn't we already have something similar to this at a different time of year ?

I do not know if it will be more attended than the NCAA tournament.  But the vast majority of people at the NCAA tournament do not care about the team championship now as it is, they're there to support their favorite team and the wrestlers on that team.  Whose rankings?  Probably an amalgamation of several reputable media sources, or a computerized algorithm.  Or, if you want, the top 8 teams from the individual tournament (in that scenario it would be providing that the dual tournament would happen after the individual tournament.)

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