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VakAttack

The lack of importance of the team scoring again put on front Street today

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3 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

I'll stop beating around the bush on this.

The way we score our greatest event ... is freaking stupid.

There's a reason I announce how many points each win is worth at the nationals. I shouldn't have to. It's our greatest event and that type of thing should be understood, just like how many points any scoring action is in  (almost) any other sport. 

 

now do Worlds

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9 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

b/c Worlds is extremely difficult to deduce team scores in progress and is also the pinnacle of the style

Basketball would be hard to score if they didn't literally give the fans the score on the scoreboard. Imagine having to write down and tally a running score during a basketball game. 

We all know a basket is worth either 2 or 3 and a foul shot worth 1, it really could not possibly be any simpler. But try and tally them up with a pencil and paper while actually watching a game. No one would enjoy the game and many would come up with different scores. Technology solves this problem in sport, and that includes wrestling. 

Edited by TBar1977

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2 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

b/c Worlds is extremely difficult to deduce team scores in progress and is also the pinnacle of the style

Is there some big contingent out there that love how the world tournament is scored?  Barely anybody cares at all about the team score at Worlds.

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1 minute ago, VakAttack said:

Is there some big contingent out there that love how the world tournament is scored?  Barely anybody cares at all about the team score at Worlds.

c'mon vak. you know precisely why i brought it up - as a rebuttal to jason.

also - 

that's your opinion. i love the team race at worlds.

 

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Just now, Husker_Du said:

c'mon vak. you know precisely why i brought it up - as a rebuttal to jason.

also - 

that's your opinion. i love the team race at worlds.

 

Maybe you do.  I've been following this sport a long time, and the first distinct memory I have of it even being discussed was before the year we won it when you were on Flo.

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oh ffs, now you're telling me what i like and don't like.

the salient point is this - the team score is not a barrier to following ncaa wrestling. it's literally on a huge giant freakin screen at all times.

using team score as a point of emphasis to change the most successful wrestling event on god's green earth is beyond disingenuous 

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Just now, Husker_Du said:

oh ffs, now you're telling me what i like and don't like.

the salient point is this - the team score is not a barrier to following ncaa wrestling. it's literally on a huge giant freakin screen at all times.

using team score as a point of emphasis to change the most successful wrestling event on god's green earth is beyond disingenuous 

I'm not telling you what you do and do not like.  My point was that, maybe you do, but most of the rest of the fandom doesn't.  That was all.

The team score is very much a barrier to casual fans man, I don't know what to tell you.  I had people asking me all tournament about the points that get scored and how much it was worth, and then explaining why the points when up by more than I had said a win was worth on the top side when a wrestler made the semis, etc.  And I'm just a fan they heard talking about it somewhat knowledgably.  These were people that were actually at the tournament, paying money to be there.

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1 minute ago, Husker_Du said:

so what?

ive done nothing in my life but follow wrestling and even i am uncertain at times of advance pts etc.

know what i do when that occurs? 

i look at the scoreboard. 

Not understanding how an event is scored is the definition of a barrier man.  You agreed w/ tbar's discussion of basketball is a perfect example.  If a person make a shot, we know immediately and exactly how many points that shot is worth.  If a football team scores a touchdown or a field goal, we know exactly and immediately how much that score is worth.  It's not the same for wrestling, it makes it harder for non-hardcore fans to understand exactly what is happening in the event.

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2 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

I'm the English voice you hear in the background of the arena. Shawn Kenney and Eric Olanowski are on the call for the UWW feed (that's on Flo). 

Gotcha....thanks Jason....everything sounded great.....the streaming went great as well.

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1 minute ago, GockeS said:

h

how did it go?

I can testify on that one, the event was great and highly intense, most notably during the Iowa-NC State dual.

But it was lame that, for whatever reason, Penn State and Iowa didn't want to wrestle each other and also that Zeke pulled Schultz from the mat when he was about to wrestle Kerkvleit for the last match of the event.

Edited by VakAttack

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1 hour ago, Husker_Du said:

Yes, i did. what was proposed in this thread is replacing the current ncaa tournament. which is 1) stupid and 2) will never happen

Who said that?  All some of us want is basically to remove the team scoring from the individual tournament.  The individual tournament stays as is, and I'm sure would still be just as well attended as it is now and wouldn't detract from it except for a tiny bit maybe once every 5 years or so when the team score is actually close.

 

1 hour ago, Husker_Du said:

and you think that is going to be more attended and watched than the individual NCAA tournament? based on what data/information/assumptions?

whose rankings? 

didn't we already have something similar to this at a different time of year ?

I know this was directed at Vak, but who said it would be "more" attended than the individual tournament?  Again, the proposal is to have both.  But nonetheless, I think it would at least be similarly attended as the individual tournament.  This year's finals attendance was ~18k per session.   Iowa vs. PSU at Carver this year had ~15k fans, PSU vs. tOSU at BJC had ~16k fans with nothing at stake, which I think is basically the capacity of those arenas.  Early round(s) would maybe need to be based on home mat advantage, but I'd think the finals and maybe even the final four could probably sell out a more neutral site NBA/NHL arena.

Intermat's of course!  But seriously, I'm sure they could come up with something without a ton of extra effort as Vak said.

The difference is it has never counted to determine the official champion, you can't compare it to an unofficial "National Duals."

 

Edited by 1032004

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6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I can testify on that one, the event was great and highly intense, most notably during the Iowa-NC State dual.

But it was lame that, for whatever reason, Penn State and Iowa didn't want to wrestle each other and also that Zeke pulled Schultz from the mat when he was about to wrestle Kerkvleit for the last match of the event.

how was the attendance? 

what kind of arena...

i remember all this now... i forgot even what the event was though

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5 minutes ago, GockeS said:

how was the attendance? 

what kind of arena...

i remember all this now... i forgot even what the event was though

The attendance was much better than I expected given that it was located in the Panhandle of Florida!  I was worried it would have embarrassingly low attendance just because we're not a big wrestlign state, but it was pretty good to my eyes.

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I'm not sure about all this...maybe it is a good idea, but I want to say,  "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"......we already play around with the rules every year....now we're talking about playing around with the "Greatest Show on Earth"/Big Dance/Mat Madness/March Matness.   As college coaches at the elite level, we're already focused on the conference and NCAA Championship, some may key on on another important tournament as well, now we'd be asking them to change priorities/focus on another big tournament.......all just food for thought.  Fadz

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3 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Not understanding how an event is scored is the definition of a barrier man.  You agreed w/ tbar's discussion of basketball is a perfect example.  If a person make a shot, we know immediately and exactly how many points that shot is worth.  If a football team scores a touchdown or a field goal, we know exactly and immediately how much that score is worth.  It's not the same for wrestling, it makes it harder for non-hardcore fans to understand exactly what is happening in the event.

But in the middle of the third quarter with no score board you do not know the score of the game. That was the point and it was made after Jason said something about it being difficult to know the score in a tournament. I, and it sounds like Willie as well, do not find tournament scoring any more problematic than basketball scoring. In each case you look at a score board. 

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But in the middle of the third quarter with no score board you do not know the score of the game. That was the point and it was made after Jason said something about it being difficult to know the score in a tournament. I, and it sounds like Willie as well, do not find tournament scoring any more problematic than basketball scoring. In each case you look at a score board. 

Which is, of course, a straw man since me (and others) are talking about the scoring after each individual scoring event.

 

EDIT: Super proud of you for cutting bait on your fruitless line of attack about how this is all a conspiracy to steal Penn State joy, though. Good job, buddy.

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Basketball would be hard to score if they didn't literally give the fans the score on the scoreboard. Imagine having to write down and tally a running score during a basketball game. 

We all know a basket is worth either 2 or 3 and a foul shot worth 1, it really could not possibly be any simpler. But try and tally them up with a pencil and paper while actually watching a game. No one would enjoy the game and many would come up with different scores. Technology solves this problem in sport, and that includes wrestling. 

Difficult for an entirely different reason.  If Michigan State has a narrow lead over CSUB heading into the championship matches of an NCAA tournament, 90% of fans wouldn't independently know when the tournament is decided.  100% would know when the BB is decided.

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1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

Which is, of course, a straw man since me (and others) are talking about the scoring after each individual scoring event.

 

EDIT: Super proud of you for cutting bait on your fruitless line of attack about how this is all a conspiracy to steal Penn State joy, though. Good job, buddy.

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I have no "line of attack" any more than any of your myriad other distractions. 

JB was talking about announcing the value of each win. Willie and I are talking about understanding the team scores and standings. There is no straw man because yoy do not get to personally control the direction of all things. You may think you can't, but no.

Edited by TBar1977

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16 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Difficult for an entirely different reason.  If Michigan State has a narrow lead over CSUB heading into the championship matches of an NCAA tournament, 90% of fans wouldn't independently know when the tournament is decided.  100% would know when the BB is decided.

I think if the team title matters to you, then you have likely worked out what needs to happen for your preferred team to win. If you know wrestling but don't know what needs to occur then it is probably not a big deal to you.

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18 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Difficult for an entirely different reason.  If Michigan State has a narrow lead over CSUB heading into the championship matches of an NCAA tournament, 90% of fans wouldn't independently know when the tournament is decided.  100% would know when the BB is decided.

that's not true.

1) you can look at the scoreboard

2) it's 4 for a win + bonus. it's not difficult. 

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