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Eagle26

Shot clock AND turn clock

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First let me say, yes, I am a freestyle fan, but I do not want to see folkstyle go away. I would like to see some of the successful elements of freestyle incorporated into folkstyle though. We hear a lot about the step out and that’s a good idea but I think the shot clock concept is one of the biggest ideas we can use. First the neutral shot clock could easily be implemented just as it is in freestyle. Is there any downside to this at all? We would never have a scoreless first period again!

Secondly, here’s my new idea… a turn clock for the top guy! If there are no turns by the top guy, and it doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere, the referee issues a warning to the top guy. Wrestlers restart in the referees position with no penalty. If there are still no turns , ref calls it again (this call should be made by 1 minute of riding) and top wrestle has 30 seconds to score or they restart on their feet after the first break in action (wrestling continues past 30 sec if it looks like a turn or escape/reversal is about to happen). I’m thinking no point awarded to the bottom guy unless he earns the escape.

Let me hear it! What do you all think? 

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1 minute ago, Eagle26 said:

First let me say, yes, I am a freestyle fan, but I do not want to see folkstyle go away. I would like to see some of the successful elements of freestyle incorporated into folkstyle though. We hear a lot about the step out and that’s a good idea but I think the shot clock concept is one of the biggest ideas we can use. First the neutral shot clock could easily be implemented just as it is in freestyle. Is there any downside to this at all? We would never have a scoreless first period again!

Secondly, here’s my new idea… a turn clock for the top guy! If there are no turns by the top guy, and it doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere, the referee issues a warning to the top guy. Wrestlers restart in the referees position with no penalty. If there are still no turns , ref calls it again (this call should be made by 1 minute of riding) and top wrestle has 30 seconds to score or they restart on their feet after the first break in action (wrestling continues past 30 sec if it looks like a turn or escape/reversal is about to happen). I’m thinking no point awarded to the bottom guy unless he earns the escape.

Let me hear it! What do you all think? 

Too complicated. Bad idea.

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I don’t think it’s that complicated. Same concept as shot clock and that’s easy to understand. Passivity/stalling calls are judgement and non-reviewable.

The point is refs are afraid to call stalling because they don’t want to give free points. Here they are still giving wrestlers a chance so there is no fear of calling it. 

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6 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I don’t think it’s that complicated. Same concept as shot clock and that’s easy to understand. Passivity/stalling calls are judgement and non-reviewable.

The point is refs are afraid to call stalling because they don’t want to give free points. Here they are still giving wrestlers a chance so there is no fear of calling it. 

Freestyle doesn’t have riding time though, so there is only one clock.  Not to mention you want to add BOTH a shot clock and a turn clock, so there would be 3 clocks.  We want to make it easier for the refs, not harder. 

I think the most simple change to improve top wrestling without “turning folkstyle into freestyle” would be to not award riding time unless a nearfall is scored.

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20 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

First let me say, yes, I am a freestyle fan, but I do not want to see folkstyle go away. I would like to see some of the successful elements of freestyle incorporated into folkstyle though. We hear a lot about the step out and that’s a good idea but I think the shot clock concept is one of the biggest ideas we can use. First the neutral shot clock could easily be implemented just as it is in freestyle. Is there any downside to this at all? We would never have a scoreless first period again!

 

Why would this result in “never having a scoreless first period again”?  Even currently there can certainly be 0-0 first periods with no stalling.

Frankly that’s the main thing I don’t like about freestyle - they usually just alternate who gets hit for passivity.

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31 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Why would this result in “never having a scoreless first period again”?  Even currently there can certainly be 0-0 first periods with no stalling.

Frankly that’s the main thing I don’t like about freestyle - they usually just alternate who gets hit for passivity.

In FS, by rule the ref has to put one guy on the shot clock if there is no score after 1 minute. This is not a big deal usually in free because there is usually much more scoring. A 1 point edge in Folk is a much bigger deal, since the top guys are so good at playing the edge and shutting down scoring

 

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5 minutes ago, Jim L said:

In FS, by rule the ref has to put one guy on the shot clock if there is no score after 1 minute. This is not a big deal usually in free because there is usually much more scoring. A 1 point edge in Folk is a much bigger deal, since the top guys are so good at playing the edge and shutting down scoring

 

Ok I did know that in freestyle, wasn’t 100% sure if OP meant to literally use their same exact rule.  But like I said I don’t like that the majority of the time it seems like they just alternate who they call it on.  I know some also argue the shot clock basically incentivizes stalling for the guy not on the clock.

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41 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Frankly that’s the main thing I don’t like about freestyle - they usually just alternate who gets hit for passivity.

The rationale is that the cautions aren't penalties as much as inducements to score. If it doesn't work on the one guy, maybe it will work on the other 

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Ok I did know that in freestyle, wasn’t 100% sure if OP meant to literally use their same exact rule.  But like I said I don’t like that the majority of the time it seems like they just alternate who they call it on.  I know some also argue the shot clock basically incentivizes stalling for the guy not on the clock.

More of an issue in Greco where it is usually very low scoring and there is an advantage to be put on the clock first knowing your opponent will probably also be dinged, but then you have last point scored. Maybe the only set of rules worse than Folk

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3 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

The rationale is that the cautions aren't penalties as much as inducements to score. If it doesn't work on the one guy, maybe it will work on the other 

Not always though. I don't believe the other wrestler has to take a turn on the clock?

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First let me say, yes, I am a freestyle fan, but I do not want to see folkstyle go away. I would like to see some of the successful elements of freestyle incorporated into folkstyle though. We hear a lot about the step out and that’s a good idea but I think the shot clock concept is one of the biggest ideas we can use. First the neutral shot clock could easily be implemented just as it is in freestyle. Is there any downside to this at all? We would never have a scoreless first period again!
Secondly, here’s my new idea… a turn clock for the top guy! If there are no turns by the top guy, and it doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere, the referee issues a warning to the top guy. Wrestlers restart in the referees position with no penalty. If there are still no turns , ref calls it again (this call should be made by 1 minute of riding) and top wrestle has 30 seconds to score or they restart on their feet after the first break in action (wrestling continues past 30 sec if it looks like a turn or escape/reversal is about to happen). I’m thinking no point awarded to the bottom guy unless he earns the escape.
Let me hear it! What do you all think? 

I like the idea of a top shot clock but what happens if bottom guy is getting to his feet off the whistle and multiple times goes off the mat top guy is doing his best to return him not stalling while doing it.

You’re basically taking the bottom guys opportunity to score away after a minute and if you don’t then you have another judgement call by the refs to determine if the action on top is enough… like someone else said it makes it too complicated.

I honestly think either RT goes away or is only awarded if NF is scored and OT goes all to their feet with unlimited time first guy to score a td wins. That would eliminate in my mind a lot of the issues I have with the current rules

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2 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

This would have the impact of forcing guys to stall on top even more, just with a clock in place to let them know when they can stop stalling and start wrestling again.

 

2 hours ago, 4awrestler said:


I like the idea of a top shot clock but what happens if bottom guy is getting to his feet off the whistle and multiple times goes off the mat top guy is doing his best to return him not stalling while doing it.

You’re basically taking the bottom guys opportunity to score away after a minute and if you don’t then you have another judgement call by the refs to determine if the action on top is enough… like someone else said it makes it too complicated.

I honestly think either RT goes away or is only awarded if NF is scored and OT goes all to their feet with unlimited time first guy to score a td wins. That would eliminate in my mind a lot of the issues I have with the current rules

Good points. I’m changing my mind now… let’s give the bottom guy the escape point if the top guy doesn’t score during the turn clock. 

I’m just spit balling here but the riding on top without turns is extremely boring and needs addressed. Maybe if the referees all decided to put a MUCH bigger emphasis on calling stalling on top, that would solve it? But I think the shot clock was a huge success for freestyle and maybe there is a way to apply it in folkstyle mat wrestling?

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16 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

 

Good points. I’m changing my mind now… let’s give the bottom guy the escape point if the top guy doesn’t score during the turn clock. 

I’m just spit balling here but the riding on top without turns is extremely boring and needs addressed. Maybe if the referees all decided to put a MUCH bigger emphasis on calling stalling on top, that would solve it? But I think the shot clock was a huge success for freestyle and maybe there is a way to apply it in folkstyle mat wrestling?

How do you feel about no riding time point unless nearfall scored?

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2 minutes ago, GoNotQuietly said:

I’m just going to plug the same idea I always do here.

No riding time and no escape point.
Folkstyle criteria is first point scored and there is no overtime.
Push out.
????
Profit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No escape point is dumb IMO.  Getting an escape is hard

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4 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

I don’t think it’s that complicated. Same concept as shot clock and that’s easy to understand. Passivity/stalling calls are judgement and non-reviewable.

The point is refs are afraid to call stalling because they don’t want to give free points. Here they are still giving wrestlers a chance so there is no fear of calling it. 

shot clock in free is called terribly

this would be worse

depends what color the singlet is 

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4 hours ago, Jim L said:

In FS, by rule the ref has to put one guy on the shot clock if there is no score after 1 minute. This is not a big deal usually in free because there is usually much more scoring. A 1 point edge in Folk is a much bigger deal, since the top guys are so good at playing the edge and shutting down scoring

 

which is really stupid

i mean.. what if there is flurry after flurry.. and no score... now you have to put someone on?

stupid.

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1 hour ago, GockeS said:

which is really stupid

i mean.. what if there is flurry after flurry.. and no score... now you have to put someone on?

stupid.

From what I've watched this does not happen that much... Lots of actions typically results in lots of points, unlike folk where wild flurries often have no score

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2 hours ago, Jim L said:

From what I've watched this does not happen that much... Lots of actions typically results in lots of points, unlike folk where wild flurries often have no score

e.g. Wood got squat for dropping Schultz on his melon.

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I don’t think there should be a “shot clock” but the circle and dancing without much tying up that Cam Amine (he’s just the first to pop into my head) does against equal or higher ranked opponents should be policed more.

It’s hard to be uniform in “stalling” but it should start as a stalemate reset to the center.

if the same wrestler keeps breaking contact after a few times with no aggression it should become a stall warning. 

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6 hours ago, 1032004 said:

How do you feel about no riding time point unless nearfall scored?

I’d rather just get rid of riding time altogether. Riding without turning is extremely boring to watch. Why reward it?

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3 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I’d rather just get rid of riding time altogether. Riding without turning is extremely boring to watch. Why reward it?

That’s kinda my point…you’d only get “rewarded” if you turned them

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