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portajohn

I Know Cael Gets the Praise

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Cael & his staff are #1 this year. Don't know if they would do as well without Cael to lead it all - but I don't think they would. Somehow he holds them together - enough so Casey has not left for other offers.

Put into perspective - 13 seasons, 9 Titles. If we remove 2020 COVID NoTourney - it is 12 seasons, 9 Titles. Major credit to Cael & HIS STAFF.

I doubt Penn State will threaten 9 in a row like Gable had at Iowa. But so far Penn State is doing the job. Overall it it good for Wrestling.

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1 hour ago, Casper said:

Cael & his staff are #1 this year. Don't know if they would do as well without Cael to lead it all - but I don't think they would. Somehow he holds them together - enough so Casey has not left for other offers.

Put into perspective - 13 seasons, 9 Titles. If we remove 2020 COVID NoTourney - it is 12 seasons, 9 Titles. Major credit to Cael & HIS STAFF.

I doubt Penn State will threaten 9 in a row like Gable had at Iowa. But so far Penn State is doing the job. Overall it it good for Wrestling.

I’m not being sarcastic or acerbic.. but how is lack of competitive parity “good” for wrestling 

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30 minutes ago, jp157 said:

I’m not being sarcastic or acerbic.. but how is lack of competitive parity “good” for wrestling 

Its a good question. I have been thinking about this a lot now that I am looking at wrestling data. Because I am working backward, all of my data is dominated by PSU. I am working to fix that.

College wrestling has always been dynastic. One or two teams dominating for long periods. Is it a coincidence that school participation has been shrinking too? Or are those two things related?

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10 hours ago, portajohn said:

It was solely to throw some light on & give props to a member of the PSU staff that is and has produced  quite a few studs.  Cunningham's success seems to go unnoticed to the general wrestling public.

True and well worth the post. 

One thing that makes the situation work so well is I think Casey likes it this way.  I saw a Penn State road dual once where the top guys on the team and Cael in particular got mobbed afterwards by the crowd. 

Cael patiently signed everything put in front of him and posed for every picture and answered questions, but he looked a lot less happy than Casey, who was chatting unnoticed with a friend who was at the meet and then walked right through the crowd and started laughing with Nickal, who had made a getaway, about something in the back hall. 

(Actually the funniest part to me was that until I stuck a ticket stub in Varner's face to sign, no one had noticed a guy who had the same gold medal at home that Cael does.)

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5 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Its a good question. I have been thinking about this a lot now that I am looking at wrestling data. Because I am working backward, all of my data is dominated by PSU. I am working to fix that.

College wrestling has always been dynastic. One or two teams dominating for long periods. Is it a coincidence that school participation has been shrinking too? Or are those two things related?

College football is the same way and is doing just fine. The problem with wrestling is it’s a niche sport. Arkansas football has sucked forever, yet people in Arkansas still go to their games. I guess there’s not much else to do there. Parity isn’t a problem if the product is good. 

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8 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Its a good question. I have been thinking about this a lot now that I am looking at wrestling data. Because I am working backward, all of my data is dominated by PSU. I am working to fix that.

College wrestling has always been dynastic. One or two teams dominating for long periods. Is it a coincidence that school participation has been shrinking too? Or are those two things related?

I think the argument that lack of any semblance of competitive parity hasn’t been good, in the big picture. Is very much a strong one. 
Though honestly discussion about it seems to trigger people 

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2 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

College football is the same way and is doing just fine. The problem with wrestling is it’s a niche sport. Arkansas football has sucked forever, yet people in Arkansas still go to their games. I guess there’s not much else to do there. Parity isn’t a problem if the product is good. 

College football has had 25 different schools win a national championship since 1997, wrestling has had 5 in the same time. The degrees of dynastic behavior are different. But football is a bad comp for the reason you stated. It is not a niche sport. The right way to look at it is to compare wrestling to other niche sports that are not dominated by a handful of schools. Maybe all niche sports are that way. Not sure.

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3 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

College football has had 25 different schools win a national championship since 1997, wrestling has had 5 in the same time. The degrees of dynastic behavior are different. But football is a bad comp for the reason you stated. It is not a niche sport. The right way to look at it is to compare wrestling to other niche sports that are not dominated by a handful of schools. Maybe all niche sports are that way. Not sure.

But the real question is.. why do people keep assuming wrestling “has” to be a niche sport 

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17 minutes ago, jp157 said:

But the real question is.. why do people keep assuming wrestling “has” to be a niche sport 

The biggest hurdle is that the rules are too hard to understand. And that is not a fixable problem. 

Edited by CoachWrestling

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1 hour ago, jp157 said:

But the real question is.. why do people keep assuming wrestling “has” to be a niche sport 

Outside of Basketball and Football, and maybe Baseball and Hockey in certain parts of the country, all NCAA sports are niche.

 

Edited by Jim L

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1 minute ago, Jim L said:

Outside of Basketball and Football, and maybe Baseball and Hockey in certain parts of the country, all NCAA sports are niche.

 

Even looking at pro sports, we can add Golf and Tennis, and soccer for the rest of the world, what other sports aren't niche?

Every four years, Gymnastics and Figure Skating?

Maybe UFC and Boxing

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3 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Outside of Basketball and Football, and maybe Baseball and Hockey in cetain parts of the country, all NCAA sports are niche.

 

You could add swimming, track, and soccer easily to that list , but I see what your saying. 

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13 minutes ago, southend said:

You could add swimming, track, and soccer easily to that list , but I see what your saying. 

Those sports aren't niche at NCAA levels? Swimming and Track get coverage every Olympic year, and soccer does for the World Cup years

I have no clue who the top teams  or individuals are in competing at the NCAA level now. Does anyone, who is not a specific fan of one of those sports?

 

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24 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Outside of Basketball and Football, and maybe Baseball and Hockey in certain parts of the country, all NCAA sports are niche.

 

But again,why. Every school I know of where wrestling coaches make the effort.. attendance and school popularity is high. Hs and college. Wrestling doesn’t have to be a niche sport. But it makes itself one 

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dynastic nature of it has nothing to do with dropping the sport

until 2000 i think 5 schools outside the states Iowa and Oklahoma had won a title. fewer before 1972

the schools were dropped due to title IX

Edited by GockeS

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5 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

College football has had 25 different schools win a national championship since 1997, wrestling has had 5 in the same time. The degrees of dynastic behavior are different. But football is a bad comp for the reason you stated. It is not a niche sport. The right way to look at it is to compare wrestling to other niche sports that are not dominated by a handful of schools. Maybe all niche sports are that way. Not sure.

That was then. Now, Alabama wins almost every year. 

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On 3/20/2022 at 4:28 PM, alliseeisgold said:

Was in the ncaa finals at cornell and shouldn't of been at penn state if officials make some calls......looks like the same wrestler. Don't see that Cael got him to jump levels

You really should send a written objection to the NCAA about Dean, since you are sure that he shouldn't have been in the finals this year. His title should be withdrawn and Penn State disqualified.  I feel much better now.

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3 hours ago, GockeS said:

dynastic nature of it has nothing to do with dropping the sport

until 2000 i think 5 schools outside the states Iowa and Oklahoma had won a title. fewer before 1972

the schools were dropped due to title IX

Title IX was the excuse not the reason.. it’s pretty easy to pick which out of Mens soccer Mens Tennis, baseball and wrestling to cut.. when the wrestling teams, very often, had the worst grades, and behavior.. add in not “playing politics” by coaches. It wasn’t a hard choice.

The continued victim complex, and complete lack of self accountability about this that wrestlers have about this issue always staggers me

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yeah self accountability

i remember my AD not allowing me to do something because all wrestling coaches are liars and cheaters

yeah... 

way to perpetuate it jp

i agree that it was the excuse

but if it didn't exist... how many would have been dropped? some i'm sure, but not the extent that were.

and again.. it shouldn't have to exist... but there were a lot more people who were liars and cheaters that weren't wrestling coaches making things bad for womens sports.

so dont get all high and mighty on me

Edited by GockeS

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20 hours ago, GockeS said:

i agree, the rules can be a problem

NFL had and has a problem with 'what is a catch?'

we have a problem with 'what is a takedown?'

and 'what is stalling?'

Explains why nobody watches NFL games

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12 minutes ago, Jim L said:

Explains why nobody watches NFL games

they do.

because they like it.

those that like wrestling watch wrestling.

im just saying the rules aren't really the problem when it comes to new viewership

 

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