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Fletcher

Which NCAA champ could beat the NCAA champ a weight up?

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5 hours ago, Scourge197 said:

And maybe not even close matches?

I think Yianni's incredible...but haven't two of them beat Yianni the last time they wrestled and the other in that group is the U23 World Champ who just won the "most competitive," weight at the D1s...who also has ~20 pounds on Yianni?

 

Yes believe both wins were in Freestyle , one in a meaningless situation . Deakin was many years ago I believe . 

I'm sure Yianni has gotten up close to 165 before, , he would be smaller but not that small . When I say not close I should clarify , I mean 

2 or 3 extra takedowns which with escapes could only be winning by 2 -4 points which is still a relatively dominant win . 

Will be interesting to see the NIck Lee Yianni rematch in freestyle though .

 

On  a side note for guys going up and winning , I don't think Kyle Dake gets enough credit for when he almost beat Cox in the best of 3 , taking 1 match . 

I mean what is Cox probably 15 pounds heavier after rehydrating ? And Dake wasn't even 86 kg I believe so Cox had maybe 20 lbs on him on the mat and was coming down from a close to 230 walking around weight and Dake was walking around at around 180 -185, probably doing everything he could to keep weight on . 

Also winning against a giant David Taylor at 86 Kg . 

Huge Frame not only height but shoulder width , arm length etc 

 

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6 hours ago, Scourge197 said:

And maybe not even close matches?

I think Yianni's incredible...but haven't two of them beat Yianni the last time they wrestled and the other in that group is the U23 World Champ who just won the "most competitive," weight at the D1s...who also has ~20 pounds on Yianni?

 

I assume you are talking about O'Toole when you said U23 champ.  He actually won Junior Worlds which is in general more prestiguous and competitive than U23 Worlds. 

Also while 165 might be the most competitive in the sense that there were the most title contenders before the tournament,  it was not the deepest or highest level of wrestling.  That has to be 285.  No less than 5 wrestlers in that bracket are age level world champs in some style; Gable (Olympics, Junior, Cadet x2), Parris (Junior), Kerkvliet (Cadet), Schultz (Cadet greco), Big Tone (U23).  Schultz and Kerkvliet have several other cadet and junior world medals in additoin to their 1 championship.  Throw in Zach Elam (silver juniors), Lucas Davidson (silver juniors) and Jordan Wood (silver cadets) and any 197 going up will be wading into deep waters.

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2 hours ago, Corellan said:

Yes believe both wins were in Freestyle , one in a meaningless situation . Deakin was many years ago I believe . 

I'm sure Yianni has gotten up close to 165 before, , he would be smaller but not that small . When I say not close I should clarify , I mean 

2 or 3 extra takedowns which with escapes could only be winning by 2 -4 points which is still a relatively dominant win . 

Will be interesting to see the NIck Lee Yianni rematch in freestyle though . 

I don't think Johnny D has been over 155lbs in his life.

Neither of those losses were irrelevant.  Deakin went on to take Silver at Junior Worlds, a rather prestigious tournament.  Lee earned a spot on the US National team (Top 3).  Neither seem irrelevant to me.

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16 hours ago, treep2000 said:

Suriano vs. RBY:  I take RBY.  Nicky pushups is looking to make noise on the senior circuit but RBY has now taken out the current world silver meadlist, at the higher weight, twice in a row.  I know, styles matter, but... still RBY.

RBY vs. Lee:  I take Lee, simply because I think he finishes better and pushes a pace, similar to DT.  Super close match, but Lee is my pick.

Lee vs. Yianni:  Yianni from now on.   We know the situation from last year, but the latest version we saw from Yianni wins.

Yianni vs. Deakin:  Yianni again.  Deakin is good, Yianni is better, even though Deakin is actually 174.

Deakin vs. O'toole:  I'm a believer of O'toole.  He's got something special going on and I am going to find it difficult for anyone to beat him from now on.

O'Toole vs. Starocci:  pure horsepower difference here, but I'll take Carter in a nail biter.

Starocci vs. Brooks:  Brooks takes this.  It'll be close, but Brooks takes it.

Brooks vs. Dean.  Brooks again.  His technique overcomes whatever size he's giving up.

Dean vs. Gable:  Gable by tech over Dean, and pretty much everyone else at 197, including Ford Focus.  

Gable vs. Suriano (mythical, hypothetical, equally sized matchup):  if Gable was shrunk down to the same height/weight ratio or if Suriano was sized up to the same height/weight ratio, Suriano would win.  Wrestling is simply different at the far end of the weight classes.  Sure.  Gable wrestles like a lower weight guy, but he does not wrestle like a 125.  Technique, speed, positioning, you name it, is so much different than hwt techniques.  

Great take! I agree on all counts even the mythical Gable/Suriano match. I do want to add that I think Brooks is a bigger favorite over Dean than Yianni is over Deakin, so Brooks would be the best bet for this question. 

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3 hours ago, Corellan said:

Yes believe both wins were in Freestyle , one in a meaningless situation . Deakin was many years ago I believe . 

I'm sure Yianni has gotten up close to 165 before, , he would be smaller but not that small . When I say not close I should clarify , I mean 

2 or 3 extra takedowns which with escapes could only be winning by 2 -4 points which is still a relatively dominant win . 

Will be interesting to see the NIck Lee Yianni rematch in freestyle though .

 

On  a side note for guys going up and winning , I don't think Kyle Dake gets enough credit for when he almost beat Cox in the best of 3 , taking 1 match . 

I mean what is Cox probably 15 pounds heavier after rehydrating ? And Dake wasn't even 86 kg I believe so Cox had maybe 20 lbs on him on the mat and was coming down from a close to 230 walking around weight and Dake was walking around at around 180 -185, probably doing everything he could to keep weight on . 

Also winning against a giant David Taylor at 86 Kg . 

Huge Frame not only height but shoulder width , arm length etc 

 

There was national team membership, and the training opportunities and stipends that go with that on the line. I guess we have different definitions of meaningless.

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

I don't think Johnny D has been over 155lbs in his life.

Neither of those losses were irrelevant.  Deakin went on to take Silver at Junior Worlds, a rather prestigious tournament.  Lee earned a spot on the US National team (Top 3).  Neither seem irrelevant to me.

Deakin loss not irrelevant from a result perspective but happened a very long time ago , before college I believe . 

Nick Lee loss was after losing in the tournament when a world team birth was expected so somewhat of a letdown to what 

was expected but yes not irrelevant from the perspective of making top 3 . 

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1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

There was national team membership, and the training opportunities and stipends that go with that on the line. I guess we have different definitions of meaningless.

Yes good point . I was referring to irrelevant from the perspective of the original goal, to make a world team but definitely not meaningless regarding the other things you mentioned . 

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19 hours ago, lu_alum said:


I put very little stock in a result on the backside of the Olympic Trials tourney. Highly doubt Lee could repeat his consolation victories if meeting those opponents in the championship bracket.


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They weren’t worthless. It was a national team spot. Otherwise they would have MFF (like Yianni did at the Open)

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1 hour ago, Lurker said:

They weren’t worthless. It was a national team spot. Otherwise they would have MFF (like Yianni did at the Open)

Doesn't mean as much today as it did 20 years ago.  These guys are getting all the funding they need without the aid of being a member of the USA Wrestling National Team.

Edited by lu_alum

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3 hours ago, Corellan said:

Deakin loss not irrelevant from a result perspective but happened a very long time ago , before college I believe . 

Nick Lee loss was after losing in the tournament when a world team birth was expected so somewhat of a letdown to what 

was expected but yes not irrelevant from the perspective of making top 3 . 

Both very fair points.

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1 hour ago, lu_alum said:

Doesn't mean as much today as it did 20 years ago.  These guys are getting all the funding they need without the aid of being a member of the USA Wrestling National Team.

The money might not be biggest motivating factor.  Being higher on the ladder still can decide invites to lesser competitions where the nation is represented but there is no wrestleoff like Pan Ams and the World Cup.  Sometimes the top guys op out of these for one reason or another.

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On 3/21/2022 at 5:57 PM, Fletcher said:

That would be much more interesting to watch than the NCAA finals. FWIW, I think Deakin's the best bet. Maybe Brooks.

Brooks by far the best choice.  I don’t think Deakin

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11 hours ago, fanta said:

On top of all of this he and his friends have talked about how he has been practicing semen retention for the better part of 3 years. That takes some serious dedication!

Is this a joke...or is this **** real? Because...I'll be honest, even if I thought it'd make the difference, there's NO WAY I'm going 3 days doing this(I just looked it up, I thought you were just mocking him and that it wasn't real, but even though it's real, I'm assuming you're kidding.

I was a 74 pounder and I don't think I made it through more than 2-3 days.

My god if that's real, he's gonna look back on College and think, "what the hell did I miss out on." Still skeptical it's true, but given Aaron Brooks explanation that he lost at the B1Gs because he "strayed from Jesus," so given how built in religion is to our little community, there are probably enough A.C Greens out there as it is...but TOTAL retention...

I can't even wrap my head around this. I'm in my 30s and if it's been a week, I'm like a 12 year old with the wet dreams.

 

Had I known this nonsense before the Tournament...I go back and picked Carr.

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On 3/24/2022 at 4:39 AM, tigerfan said:

I’d say O’Toole already did. Public talk of weight cutting notwithstanding, we all know he doesn’t pass the eyeball test for 165. 

People keep saying this and I don't buy it. He's thick. Wick is long and isn't nearly as barrel chested and his hips aren't nearly as thick(for instance)...and people were talking about him going up to 174(at least when he was at Wisconsin).

I know O'Toole had to cut a few pounds each night before weigh-ins. I don't know how much it was, but I know he's not walking around at 165 and doesn't have to worry about cutting at all.

Either way, even if he's a natural 165. There's still a wide chasm there between holding 157 for 3 days and just not cutting any weight. And I'm still taking Deakin and Carr at 157 vs any of the '65s cutting down.

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On 3/24/2022 at 5:29 AM, Scourge197 said:

Is this a joke...or is this **** real? Because...I'll be honest, even if I thought it'd make the difference, there's NO WAY I'm going 3 days doing this(I just looked it up, I thought you were just mocking him and that it wasn't real, but even though it's real, I'm assuming you're kidding.

I was a 74 pounder and I don't think I made it through more than 2-3 days.

My god if that's real, he's gonna look back on College and think, "what the hell did I miss out on." Still skeptical it's true, but given Aaron Brooks explanation that he lost at the B1Gs because he "strayed from Jesus," so given how built in religion is to our little community, there are probably enough A.C Greens out there as it is...but TOTAL retention...

I can't even wrap my head around this. I'm in my 30s and if it's been a week, I'm like a 12 year old with the wet dreams.

 

Had I known this nonsense before the Tournament...I go back and picked Carr.

You understand there is sports science that supports retention correct?  Probably why he has the title of NCAA D1 Wrestling Champion and you do not.  He understands it.

Also, Deakin already has two degrees from Northwestern - one in Economics and one in Business Institutions.  He will add his third in the coming weeks/months.  I don't think through all of his successes that he will have after college that he won't have the time, or stupidity, to look back with regret towards him choosing to not wank as a hobby.

In short, your ignorant post is ignorant.

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You understand there is sports science that supports retention correct?  Probably why he has the title of NCAA D1 Wrestling Champion and you do not.  He understands it.

Also, Deakin already has two degrees from Northwestern - one in Economics and one in Business Institutions.  He will add his third in the coming weeks/months.  I don't think through all of his successes that he will have after college that he won't have the time, or stupidity, to look back with regret towards him choosing to not wank as a hobby.

In short, your ignorant post is ignorant.

 

Based on the timeline, 3 of our 4 married mens Olympic medalists from the last Olympics don’t subscribe. Jordan Burroughs doesn’t either, it seems.

 

Hell, there are a LOT of professional athletes getting busy on the regular.

 

But, hey, whatever makes someone feel they have an edge. That can be just as powerful as an actual performance enhancing substance or routine.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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15 minutes ago, Le duke said:

 


Based on the timeline, 3 of our 4 mens Olympic medalists from the last Olympics don’t subscribe. Jordan Burroughs doesn’t either, it seems.

Hell, there are a LOT of professional athletes getting busy on the regular.

But, hey, whatever makes someone feel they have an edge. That can be just as powerful as an actual performance enhancing substance or routine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I don't subscribe either.  Not my nature to.

That doesn't change that the science supports it.

Edit: My response wasn't to challenge or accept.  It was in defense of Deakin, who is clearly going to be just fine - despite what the toon I responded to would lead us to believe.

Edited by nhs67

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Not a single champ this year could bump and beat the guy a weight above them. Closest one is probably brooks and Dean. If Spencer Lee was in the mix rby would beat him too.

I’m guessing Dean wrestled off against Brooks for the 184 spot and lost. That said, while he doesn’t look like a full sized 197 (yet?), I think he’s a bit too big for AB to impose his will on, now. It will be interesting to see if he gets bigger between now and next season.


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