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Which NCAA champ could beat the NCAA champ a weight up?

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On 3/23/2022 at 6:18 PM, fanta said:

On top of all of this he and his friends have talked about how he has been practicing semen retention for the better part of 3 years. That takes some serious dedication!

That reminds me of a story... Quite a few years ago the company I worked for hired a younger Russian PhD engineer, Mike (Mikhail).  I kinda took him under my wing because he had never been to US before and had him over to supper a couple times a week, etc.  My wife mentioned that he was very nice and intelligent but his breath would stop a freight train.  I was trying to think of a way to say something to him (not easy) when he told me that he had read somewhere where eating raw garlic was very healthy and he was eating a lot.  I said to him, Mike, you may live to be a hundred, but you ain't ever getting la!d.  A feller's gotta make choices.

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14 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Except one already has.

OK, fine - if we're going to be obtuse...

This year, I believe no NCAA champ can beat the NCAA champ a weight up in the same actual sport they competed at in the NCAA tournament in which they became champs.

In another sport? Probably many could outrun their heavier counterparts in a sprint. Same for a distance run. Also, a pull-up contest. Freestyle/Greco would change the answer.

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6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

OK, fine - if we're going to be obtuse...

This year, I believe no NCAA champ can beat the NCAA champ a weight up in the same actual sport they competed at in the NCAA tournament in which they became champs.

In another sport? Probably many could outrun their heavier counterparts in a sprint. Same for a distance run. Also, a pull-up contest. Freestyle/Greco would change the answer.

A few things. All my angles are less than 90.

And wrestling is the same sport as wrestling.

Many like to either pretend there is nothing to learn from that match where two wrestlers wrestled because it was freestyle, or that Yianni wasn't really trying so it shouldn't count.

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6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

OK, fine - if we're going to be obtuse...

This year, I believe no NCAA champ can beat the NCAA champ a weight up in the same actual sport they competed at in the NCAA tournament in which they became champs.

In another sport? Probably many could outrun their heavier counterparts in a sprint. Same for a distance run. Also, a pull-up contest. Freestyle/Greco would change the answer.

Comparing Granny Smith (Folkstyle) and Red Delicious (Freestyle) apples =/= comparing Granny Smith and Oak Tree leaves (sprinting) or the actual Oak Tree (long distance running).  Good try (not).

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

I heard Yianni wasn't trying when Nick Lee beat him. Heard it from the experts right here on themat.com. 

Truth is truth.

Rather than people actually acknowledge that Lee is pretty good...

One thing that I haven't seen acknowledged on TheMat is that Johnny D and ZTrain trained for each other for the better part of a year.  Exclusively.  Lee was ZTrain's primary training partner for that.  So while Johnny D was preparing for ZTrain and ZTrain for Johnny D, Lee was preparing for both of them.  He was able to gain ground and surpass them because of this.  At this point I give ZTrain a better chance at beating Lee than Johnny D due to familiarity.

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8 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

A few things. All my angles are less than 90.

And wrestling is the same sport as wrestling.

Many like to either pretend there is nothing to learn from that match where two wrestlers wrestled because it was freestyle, or that Yianni wasn't really trying so it shouldn't count.

Straw man argument. OP isn't about if there is or isn't something "to learn", or if different disciplines of wrestling are wrestling, or how hard Yianni was trying.

15 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

This year, I believe no NCAA champ can beat the NCAA champ a weight up in the same actual sport they competed at in the NCAA tournament in which they became champs.

There is no NCAA wrestling discipline other than folkstyle. No such thing as NCAA freestyle.

 

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6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

Straw man argument. OP isn't about if there is or isn't something "to learn", or if different disciplines of wrestling are wrestling, or how hard Yianni was trying.

There is no NCAA wrestling discipline other than folkstyle. No such thing as NCAA freestyle.

 

Incorrect use of the term strawman.

My argument is an example of extrapolation. I have extrapolated from freestyle results to make an assumption about folkstyle. I have also argued the extrapolation is valid.

And my response  was not directed at anything the OP did or did not say. It was was directed at your silly claim that freestyle is not "the same actual sport" as folkstyle, and your absurd belief that freestyle is to folkstyle as distance running is to pull ups.

Edited by Wrestleknownothing

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1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Incorrect use of the term strawman.

My argument is an example of extrapolation. I have extrapolated from freestyle results to make an assumption about folkstyle. I have also argued the extrapolation is valid.

And my response  was not directed at anything the OP did or did not say. It was was directed at your silly claim that freestyle is not "the same actual sport" as folkstyle, and your absurd belief that freestyle is to folkstyle as distance running is to pull ups.

In honor of this past weekend's SAT tests:
Freestyle : Folkstyle :: Distance Running : ________
1) Pull Ups
2) Marathon
3) Gymnastics
4) Electric Toaster

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1 hour ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Incorrect use of the term strawman.

My argument is an example of extrapolation. I have extrapolated from freestyle results to make an assumption about folkstyle. I have also argued the extrapolation is valid.

And my response  was not directed at anything the OP did or did not say. It was was directed at your silly claim that freestyle is not "the same actual sport" as folkstyle, and your absurd belief that freestyle is to folkstyle as distance running is to pull ups.

You've incorrectly used the term strawman. It's two words, Straw man - not "strawman."

You distorted what I said into something I did not say - and then argued against what I did not say. It was a textbook straw man argument.

NCAA wrestling exists only as folkstyle. Period. That is the only discipline of the sport used in the NCAA - no freestyle, greco, mud, beach, sumo, etc. When referring to the sport of wrestling at the NCAA level - there is only one discipline. All the nonsense talk is outside the scope, as is running and pull-up competition - which was my exact point.

 

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2 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

In honor of this past weekend's SAT tests:
Freestyle : Folkstyle :: Distance Running : ________
1) Pull Ups
2) Marathon
3) Gymnastics
4) Electric Toaster

The answer here seems like it should be 1893:

  • Michel Bréal is credited with the invention of the marathon. In 1893, he published his idea to put this event in the first modern Olympics in Athens in 1896
  • The first electric toaster was invented in 1893 by Alan MacMasters in Scotland

But that can't be right since 1893 isn't a choice. Trickery.

Wrestlingknownothing has solved it. He answered it in his post, it is Pull ups. Except, wait, he called that absurd (which it really is - and super weird that he blamed it on me.)

That leaves Gymnastics as the obvious answer.  But I think there's more trickery here. The word gymnastics is derived from the Greek "train naked." Athletes in ancient times competed without clothing. Much like ancient wrestling but not running naked so much. Can't be marathon.

Aha! That settles it. "Charles  Strite, he's a Mpls MN guy who invented the pop-up toaster" - it is answer #4.

Nailed it.

Edited by GreatWhiteNorth

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9 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Incorrect use of the term strawman.

My argument is an example of extrapolation. I have extrapolated from freestyle results to make an assumption about folkstyle. I have also argued the extrapolation is valid.

And my response  was not directed at anything the OP did or did not say. It was was directed at your silly claim that freestyle is not "the same actual sport" as folkstyle, and your absurd belief that freestyle is to folkstyle as distance running is to pull ups.

I like analogies.  It's almost like they can help to explain things I don't know in terms of things I do already know.  

(I think I just violated Gödel's incompleteness theorem.)

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5 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

I like analogies.  It's almost like they can help to explain things I don't know in terms of things I do already know.  

(I think I just violated Gödel's incompleteness theorem.)

I find analogies particularly useful when they are accurate, but alas...

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8 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

In honor of this past weekend's SAT tests:
Freestyle : Folkstyle :: Distance Running : ________
1) Pull Ups
2) Marathon
3) Gymnastics
4) Electric Toaster

This is a trap question innit?  The answer is actually E) OfficeMemeSameThing.gif

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6 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

The answer here seems like it should be 1893:

  • Michel Bréal is credited with the invention of the marathon. In 1893, he published his idea to put this event in the first modern Olympics in Athens in 1896
  • The first electric toaster was invented in 1893 by Alan MacMasters in Scotland

But that can't be right since 1893 isn't a choice. Trickery.

Wrestlingknownothing has solved it. He answered it in his post, it is Pull ups. Except, wait, he called that absurd (which it really is - and super weird that he blamed it on me.)

That leaves Gymnastics as the obvious answer.  But I think there's more trickery here. The word gymnastics is derived from the Greek "train naked." Athletes in ancient times competed without clothing. Much like ancient wrestling but not running naked so much. Can't be marathon.

Aha! That settles it. "Charles  Strite, he's a Mpls MN guy who invented the pop-up toaster" - it is answer #4.

Nailed it.

You put so much effort to cover up absolutely nothing.  We all already know you're the definition of insufficient.  We don't need the extra dbaggery.

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12 hours ago, nhs67 said:

You put so much effort to cover up absolutely nothing.  We all already know you're the definition of insufficient.  We don't need the extra dbaggery.

I can top that...

Mathematically:
The best analogy between a source and a target is the analogy that results in
K(Ms) + K(Ss|Ms) + K(Bs|Ms) + K(Mt|Ms) + K(St|Mt) + K(Bt|Mt) = Minimum
Generally simplified to:
K(Ms) + K(Bs|Ms) + K(Mt|Ms) = Minimum

Where:
K = Kolmogorov complexity
s = Source, t = Target
Ms = local theory of the Source, available to the observer
Mt = local theory of the Target, available to the observer
Ss and corresponding St = Known elements
Rs and corresponding Rt = Resultant elements
Bs the relation between Ss and Rs,  Bt the relation between St and Rt
(Pardon the subscripts not working...too lazy.)

In plain English:
S is like T except blah, blah, blah...
The fewer blahs, the better the analogy.
But hey, what do I know?

Edited by BerniePragle

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2 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

I can top that...

Mathematically:
The best analogy between a source and a target is the analogy that results in
K(Ms) + K(Ss|Ms) + K(Bs|Ms) + K(Mt|Ms) + K(St|Mt) + K(Bt|Mt) = Minimum
Generally simplified to:
K(Ms) + K(Bs|Ms) + K(Mt|Ms) = Minimum

Where:
Ks = Kolmogorov complexity
S = Source, T = Target
Ms = local theory of the Source, available to the observer
Mt = local theory of the Target, available to the observer
Ss and corresponding St = Known elements
Rs and corresponding Rt = Resultant elements
Bs the relation between Ss and Rs,  Bt the relation between St and Rt
(Pardon the subscripts not working...too lazy.)

In plain English:
S is like T except blah, blah, blah...
The fewer blahs, the better the analogy.
But hey, what do I know?

You are having fun.  That is quite different.

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