Top individual scorers (2009 - 2022)

[Wrestleknownothing 1,503]

Does anyone know how individual scoring has changed over the years?

I see David Taylor had 30.5 points in 2012. With four pins and a tech fall, under today's scoring that would be 29 or 29.5 points (if I am reading the current rule set correctly).

Without adjusting for rule changes here are the top 30 scorers since 2009:

[flyingcement 818]

This is awesome data.  (sorry out of reactions).  Thanks for sharing.  Some day we should create a wrestling data hub together.  I get the sense you have similar motivations to me in producing these lists: not trying to spin it into some kind of personal business - just wanting to share the information and engage others in the community who may have interest.

[goStanford18 87]

Comparing the 4x Champs' scoring output: 

1. Cael Sanderson: 106.5

2. Logan Steiber: 104.5

3. Kyle Dake: 96

4. Pat Smith: 95.5

 

Next 4xer watch: 

- 3x Champ Spencer Lee is at 76 points and sits at #17 on this list. Cael is out of reach for him, but he can pass DT--and maybe Stieber with a monster tournament. 

- 3x Champ Yianni is at 62 points. He's only scored 2 majors in his 15 wins. He's mathematically out from cracking the top 8. I don't see him passing Snyder, but think he has a shot at passing JO. 

 

Others to watch:

- 3x Finalist Daton Fix is at 58 points. He has a shot to crack the top 15 next year in his 4th dance. 

- 2x Champ Aaron Brooks is at 44.5 points

- 2x Champ Carter Starocci is at 43 points

- 1x Champ Mekhi Lewis is at 41 points 

- 1x Champ Keegan O'Toole is at 40 points 

- 1x Champ David Carr is at 39 points 

- 1x Champ Shane Griffith is at 37.5 points

- Cohlton Schultz is at 37.5 points 

 

*someone can double check the numbers. 

 

Edited March 22 by goStanford18

[gimpeltf 2,069]

I believe the main scoring rule change in the past ten years was to eliminate bye points in the round of 64. Now the pigtail winner gets advancement and bonus. Nobody gets bye points. I haven't checked to see if they did the same in the cons pigtail round but I think they did- at least it would be consistent to have done so.

There was also a period from the mid-90s on that to get the full 1.5 for a tech you had to get a near fall. The reversion to scoring all techs as 1.5 must have occurred somewhere between 2013 and 2015.

[panewbie1 14]

Barring injury, Brooks and Starocci are likely get to the high 80's to low 90's possibly pushing down Snyder, Oliver and IMar. If they are lucky enough to do so, 7 of the top 10 point scorers will be PSU. (Certainly, a lot has to go right for that to happen.)

[BerniePragle 382]

@Wrestleknownothing

@flyingcement

@goStanford18

You three guys are mighty fine at gathering, processing, and presenting data.  What I like the best though is that all three of you also try to understand and explain what the data really means, put it in context, explain how it may be misleading, and even ask for input from everybody.  You three have my respect, that's for sure.
 

[Wrestleknownothing 1,503]

6 hours ago, goStanford18 said:

Comparing the 4x Champs' scoring output: 

1. Cael Sanderson: 106.5

2. Logan Steiber: 104.5

3. Kyle Dake: 96

4. Pat Smith: 95.5

 

Next 4xer watch: 

- 3x Champ Spencer Lee is at 76 points and sits at #17 on this list. Cael is out of reach for him, but he can pass DT--and maybe Stieber with a monster tournament. 

- 3x Champ Yianni is at 62 points. He's only scored 2 majors in his 15 wins. He's mathematically out from cracking the top 8. I don't see him passing Snyder, but think he has a shot at passing JO. 

 

Others to watch:

- 3x Finalist Daton Fix is at 58 points. He has a shot to crack the top 15 next year in his 4th dance. 

- 2x Champ Aaron Brooks is at 44.5 points

- 2x Champ Carter Starocci is at 43 points

- 1x Champ Mekhi Lewis is at 41 points 

- 1x Champ Keegan O'Toole is at 40 points 

- 1x Champ David Carr is at 39 points 

- 1x Champ Shane Griffith is at 37.5 points

- Cohlton Schultz is at 37.5 points 

 

*someone can double check the numbers. 

 

Good stuff.

Minor correction/addition - Mekhi Lewis is at 43 having wrestled 3 tournaments. He had a 2 pointer in 2021 due to injury. Mason Parris is at 41 through three tourneys as well.

On the "What Coulda Been" list Zahid Valencia (67.5), Vincenzo Joseph (62), and Mark Hall (60) all would have had a shot at top 12 on the contemporary list.

[Plasmodium 2,261]

Awesome data.  I can't be the only one offended by the ruleset awarding 2xer Taylor more points than 4xer Dake.

[Wrestleknownothing 1,503]

7 hours ago, flyingcement said:

This is awesome data.  (sorry out of reactions).  Thanks for sharing.  Some day we should create a wrestling data hub together.  I get the sense you have similar motivations to me in producing these lists: not trying to spin it into some kind of personal business - just wanting to share the information and engage others in the community who may have interest.

I'm game. DM me and let me know what you have in mind.

I too am out of reactions.

[Mphillips 1,733]

2 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

  I can't be the only one offended by the ruleset awarding 2xer Taylor more points than 4xer Dake.

Absurd I tell ya...

[Wrestleknownothing 1,503]

13 minutes ago, BerniePragle said:

@Wrestleknownothing

@flyingcement

@goStanford18

You three guys are mighty fine at gathering, processing, and presenting data.  What I like the best though is that all three of you also try to understand and explain what the data really means, put it in context, explain how it may be misleading, and even ask for input from everybody.  You three have my respect, that's for sure.
 

Thanks, Bernie. Let's not forget that you were a big contributor to my efforts, as well.

[Plasmodium 2,261]

Surely Vincenzo Joseph scored enough to be on this list.

[4awrestler 72]

So with this stat are you only going to take their best 4 years? O’Toole, Starocci Brooks and others getting 5 chances is going to ruin this stat otherwise.


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[Wrestleknownothing 1,503]

1 minute ago, Plasmodium said:

Surely Vincenzo Joseph scored enough to be on this list.

If only he gotten the fourth year. He was at 62 through 3 and looked like he was headed back to the finals before the tourney was canceled. He could have gotten into the low to mid 80's, putting him in the 10 - 12 range. Ditto for Zahid Valencia (67.5) and Mark Hall (60).

[Plasmodium 2,261]

1 minute ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

If only he gotten the fourth year. He was at 62 through 3 and looked like he was headed back to the finals before the tourney was canceled. He could have gotten into the low to mid 80's, putting him in the 10 - 12 range. Ditto for Zahid Valencia (67.5) and Mark Hall (60).

Doh!  I forgot about that.  Thanks.

[Wrestleknownothing 1,503]

Just now, 4awrestler said:

So with this stat are you only going to take their best 4 years? O’Toole, Starocci Brooks and others getting 5 chances is going to ruin this stat otherwise.


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All years. So Myles Amine (#16), Jayden Eierman (#26) and Logan Massa (#58) all have 5 years of data

[IronChef 1,099]

Brooks isn't getting five chances. He wrestled in 2020, which was canceled.

2020 COVID Cancellation - 1st year eligibility used
2021 free year
2022 2nd year
2023 3rd year
2024 4th year

[TBar1977 4,538]

27 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Surely Vincenzo Joseph scored enough to be on this list.

Only got three tournaments. And as an indication of how good Cenzo was, he completely obliterated Wick when they wrestled. 

Edited March 22 by TBar1977

[Le duke 415]

So with this stat are you only going to take their best 4 years? O’Toole, Starocci Brooks and others getting 5 chances is going to ruin this stat otherwise.


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Brooks will not get 5 shots. He has been to two NCAA tournaments and has two more.


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[4awrestler 72]

Brooks will not get 5 shots. He has been to two NCAA tournaments and has two more.


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Whoops sorry, I forgot because he wrestled in 2020 it counted even though he still got to utilize the “free” year. Makes a lot of this pretty confusing when him and Starocci won their first titles in the same year in their first real opportunity at it.


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[MSU158 2,012]

2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Only got three tournaments. And as an indication of how good Cenzo was, he completely obliterated Wick when they wrestled. 

And yet got beat multiple times by Marinelli, who got brutalized by Wick at NCAA's.  Transitive property isn't very reliable...

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,158]

11 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Does anyone know how individual scoring has changed over the years?

I see David Taylor had 30.5 points in 2012. With four pins and a tech fall, under today's scoring that would be 29 or 29.5 points (if I am reading the current rule set correctly).

I believe in 2012 and prior they were awarding a point for wins in medal matches as well (rather than just advancement points), so all champ scores will be higher by 1 vs. where they would be under today's rules.  

Edited March 22 by steamboat_charlie v2

[DocBZ 194]

Surprised to see NaTo that high considering he only won it once. Also Bo Jordan who never won it.

[Wrestleknownothing 1,503]

21 minutes ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I believe in 2012 and prior they were awarding a point for wins in medal matches as well (rather than just advancement points), so all champ scores will be higher by 1 vs. where they would be under today's rules.  

That explains it. Thank you, Gambler.

[ChicagoHawk 37]

15 hours ago, flyingcement said:

This is awesome data.  (sorry out of reactions).  Thanks for sharing.  Some day we should create a wrestling data hub together.  I get the sense you have similar motivations to me in producing these lists: not trying to spin it into some kind of personal business - just wanting to share the information and engage others in the community who may have interest.

I’ve always wanted to load every bracket from ncaa(s) into a database and make it Queryable.   I’ll admit I have not looked all that much but is there somewhere I could get bout , round, date and details for matches?   
 

I work for a an software vendor that specializes in analytics and would put some work into this.