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Jimmy Cinnabon

Carter Starroci is a lot like Kyle Dake

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I've been thinking about how similar Carter Starroci wrestles compared to Kyle Dake.

Starrocci is 2/2 on national titles, so he's only halfway to accomplishing what Dake did in college.  But their styles are actually pretty similar.

  1. Both were not as heralded as the next can't-miss prospects coming out of high school.
  2. Both are great hand fighters and maintain great head/hands position in neutral.
  3. Both aren't high volume shooters from neutral, but are actually very explosive when they attack.
  4. Both are strong riders on top but don't actually score many back points.  Both employ the half on top and are adept at staying active on top while not actually getting swipes.
  5. Both have no problem escaping on bottom.
  6. Both aren't really known for being the most entertaining wrestlers to watch but just seem to win in the biggest matches.
  7. Both started winning titles as true freshmen.

Thoughts?

Edited by Jimmy Cinnabon

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Some of those comparisons may be on point, but I don't think Carter gets enough credit for his offense.  He was lighting up the scoreboard with takedowns during most of the tournament--including four against a very tough Hidlay. The finals against Mekhi was a low-scoring affair but I don't know that anyone is capable (or foolish enough) to be firing off a high volume of shots against a counterwrestler with Lewis' talent.  But Carter was still the one pressing the action on their feet. 

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9 minutes ago, EM_1996 said:

Some of those comparisons may be on point, but I don't think Carter gets enough credit for his offense.  He was lighting up the scoreboard with takedowns during most of the tournament--including four against a very tough Hidlay. The finals against Mekhi was a low-scoring affair but I don't know that anyone is capable (or foolish enough) to be firing off a high volume of shots against a counterwrestler with Lewis' talent.  But Carter was still the one pressing the action on their feet. 

I agree.  Carter looked super aggressive vs Hidlay.  Mekhi is a beast - probably the strongest wrestler in the field P4P.  He's going to win multiple titles in his NCAA career.

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This is actually a pretty good comp. The only major difference I can think of is early Dake was such a force because he was excellent upper body as well, it really forced people to attack his legs, which is historically proven to be a bad idea. That and Dake being the largest 149 ever in year 2.

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6 minutes ago, newuser69 said:

This is actually a pretty good comp. The only major difference I can think of is early Dake was such a force because he was excellent upper body as well, it really forced people to attack his legs, which is historically proven to be a bad idea. That and Dake being the largest 149 ever in year 2.

Good distinction. CStar is a full sized 174 pounder but he's not large for the weight.  Mekhi looked bigger.

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4 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I've been thinking about how similar Carter Starroci wrestles compared to Kyle Dake.

Starrocci is 2/2 on national titles, so he's only halfway to accomplishing what Dake did in college.  But their styles are actually pretty similar.

  1. Both were not as heralded as the next can't-miss prospects coming out of high school.
  2. Both are great hand fighters and maintain great head/hands position in neutral.
  3. Both aren't high volume shooters from neutral, but are actually very explosive when they attack.
  4. Both are strong riders on top but don't actually score many back points.  Both employ the half on top and are adept at staying active on top while not actually getting swipes.
  5. Both have no problem escaping on bottom.
  6. Both aren't really known for being the most entertaining wrestlers to watch but just seem to win in the biggest matches.
  7. Both started winning titles as true freshmen.

Thoughts?

Both are excellent.

I think that in neutral Dake is stronger as a counter wrestler, although he is world-class either way.  (You’ll notice that one of his adjustments against JB was to focus on countering.)  Starocci, on the other hand, is as good at initiating his own offense as he is at countering. He even took shots on Lewis, who is extremely good at defending against shots.

I also think there is a difference in that Dake was more punishing on top.

But these are tiny differences given their overall excellence. 

Edited by Katie

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20 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

really good comp imo.

both talent and grit, among other things. 

Grit is what stands out to me moreso than talent...although both are super talented.  They are both just so physically, and more importantly, mentally tough.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Poopy butthole said:

Carter wasn't a true frosh when he won last year

You caught the entire point of the thread. Congrats. (I noticed it too but said nothing.)

Edited by Katie

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I agree they’re similar in the fact that they’re both immense talents that have/will do things that haven’t been done…Dake winning 4 at 4 different weight classes and Starocci on pace to win 5 titles. 

Here’s where they differ:

Dake much more of a hammer on top. 
 

Starocci generates more offense on his feet than Dake.  Dake is one of the best defensive and counter-punchers ever.  
 

Starocci reminds me more of full-size RBY…both so smooth, slick and fast.  

Edited by ludwigdmd

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14 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I've been thinking about how similar Carter Starroci wrestles compared to Kyle Dake.

Starrocci is 2/2 on national titles, so he's only halfway to accomplishing what Dake did in college.  But their styles are actually pretty similar.

  1. Both were not as heralded as the next can't-miss prospects coming out of high school.

Wrong.  Dake was a 4X NY State Champ and the #4 overall recruit ahead of Ed Ruth.  That's very much can't miss.  

 

14 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:
  1. Both started winning titles as true freshmen.

Thoughts?

Starocci redshirted his first year.  

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2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Wrong.  Dake was a 4X NY State Champ and the #4 overall recruit ahead of Ed Ruth.  That's very much can't miss.  .  

Dake “only” won states twice. I don’t remember what he was rated as a P4P recuit but I’d be surprised if he was top 10. He was not in the same league as Ruth as a prospect.

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7 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Dake “only” won states twice. I don’t remember what he was rated as a P4P recuit but I’d be surprised if he was top 10. He was not in the same league as Ruth as a prospect.

I thought he had won 4 titles for some reason..I think because I remember him beating Paul Ligouri in the the NHSCA finals his sophomore year...But he was definitely the #4 overall recruit-maybe because he won NHSCA Junior/Senior year as well. NHSCA was a big deal back then and he won it every year.  

https://web.archive.org/web/20190201131848/http://www.d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_2009.html

Dake was a big time recruit ahead of both Ed Ruth and Collin Palmer. 

 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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10 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Good distinction. CStar is a full sized 174 pounder but he's not large for the weight.  Mekhi looked bigger.

I think Starocci is a bit stronger than Lewis, he has a more dense muscularity. 

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1 minute ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Dake “only” won states twice. I don’t remember what he was rated as a P4P recuit but I’d be surprised if he was top 10. He was not in the same league as Ruth as a prospect.

 

14 hours ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

I've been thinking about how similar Carter Starroci wrestles compared to Kyle Dake.

Starrocci is 2/2 on national titles, so he's only halfway to accomplishing what Dake did in college.  But their styles are actually pretty similar.

  1. Both were not as heralded as the next can't-miss prospects coming out of high school

Thoughts?

 

Dake was well-known coming out. For sure a top 5 guy in his class. Made the Junior World Team in '08 and was more heralded than Ruth. Starocci wasn't a top 10 guy, but I think he was top 50ish or so. He was definitely a top 2 or 3 guy at whatever weight he was at (170/182?). 

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3 hours ago, goStanford18 said:

 

 

Dake was well-known coming out. For sure a top 5 guy in his class. Made the Junior World Team in '08 and was more heralded than Ruth. Starocci wasn't a top 10 guy, but I think he was top 50ish or so. He was definitely a top 2 or 3 guy at whatever weight he was at (170/182?). 

That recruiting class in retrospect is freaking amazing and has me thinking. It had an olympic champ (Taylor),  4X NCAA champion and olympic bronze medalist (Dake), 3X NCAA champ and world team member (Ruth), 2X NCAA champ Tony Nelson.  multiple other NCAA champs-Ramos, Perry, Derek St. John, Maple...And I'm sure others.... It's also kind of impressive how accurate the top 5 were with Taylor, Dake, and Ruth all in the top 5.  

What was the greatest ever single class to come out of HS?  What was the greatest ever top 50 in recruiting rankings?

 

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18 hours ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Kyle Dake never called me a drunk. That I know of.

A little different, but didn't Dake say something along the lines of people who drink beer or eat potato chips don't read the articles he reads and believe he's Benjamin Button?

Edited by Relentless125

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8 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Wrong.  Dake was a 4X NY State Champ and the #4 overall recruit ahead of Ed Ruth.  That's very much can't miss.  

 

Starocci redshirted his first year.  

There may have been other sites ranking that class but the Intermat ranking had Taylor #1 Ruth #26 and Dake # 37  in the class of 2009- That ranking was done the summer prior to their graduating year on 7/1/08.  The rest of the top 5 at that time were E Grajales, C Perry, A OIrtiz and RJ Pena.  Other guys who had great college success include # 7 D St. John, 11 J Morrison, 12 Tony Ramos, 21 J Swartz 24 D Thorn 43 E Lofthouse, 52 R Mango,56 J Sheotock and way down at 89 Tyler Caldwell.

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9 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Wrong.  Dake was a 4X NY State Champ and the #4 overall recruit ahead of Ed Ruth.  That's very much can't miss.  

The irony.

"Dake was a two-time New York State champion and three-time finalist."

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48 minutes ago, lu1979 said:

There may have been other sites ranking that class but the Intermat ranking had Taylor #1 Ruth #26 and Dake # 37  in the class of 2009- That ranking was done the summer prior to their graduating year on 7/1/08.  The rest of the top 5 at that time were E Grajales, C Perry, A OIrtiz and RJ Pena.  Other guys who had great college success include # 7 D St. John, 11 J Morrison, 12 Tony Ramos, 21 J Swartz 24 D Thorn 43 E Lofthouse, 52 R Mango,56 J Sheotock and way down at 89 Tyler Caldwell.

 

I remember the Grajales crowd from Florida being pretty adamant he should have been #1 over DT. 

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