Greatest NCAA wrestlers by decade

[Katie 1,076]

1960s -- Uetake: 1-1-1. Undefeated career. Olympic champ after sophomore season.

1970s -- Kemp: 2-1-1-1. Freshman runner-up finish was a split referees' decision loss (despite scoring the only takedown). World champ after senior season.

1980s -- Smith: 2-1-1. World champ after junior season and Olympic champ after senior season

1990s -- Brands: ?-1-1-1. World champ after senior season

2000s -- Cael: 1-1-1-1. Undefeated career. 3x Hodge winner.

2010s -- Dake: 1-1-1-1. Hodge winner. Beat returning Hodge winner for the title as a senior. Did not use a RS.

2020s -- TBD (Lee? Gable?)

[Edited to add Brands as the 1990s greatest wrestler.]

Edited March 27 by Katie

[Drake_Mallard 373]

38 minutes ago, Katie said:

1960s -- Uetake: 1-1-1. Undefeated career. Olympic champ after sophomore season.

1970s -- Kemp: 2-1-1-1. Freshman runner-up finish was a split referees' decision loss (despite scoring the only takedown). World champ after senior season.

1980s -- Smith: 2-1-1. World champ after junior season and Olympic champ after senior season

1990s -- Neal: 4-2-1-1. Hodge winner. World champ and FILA outstanding wrestler after senior season.

2000s -- Cael: 1-1-1-1. Undefeated career. 3x Hodge winner.

2010s -- Dake: 1-1-1-1. Hodge winner. Beat returning Hodge winner for the title as a senior. Did not use a RS.

2020s -- TBD (Lee? Gable?)

 

90s? Gotta be Tom Brands. 3 time NCAA champ. Olympic and world gold.

[crossface2311 2]

For the 90's just off the top of my head I'd say Lincoln Mcilravy and Joe Williams both beat out Neal, and those are guys that just popped into my head. And Brands beats both those guys as well. So Neal at the very least is only the 4th best. 

 

Edited March 27 by crossface2311

[Mokoma 326]

10 minutes ago, Drake_Mallard said:

90s? Gotta be Tom Brands. 3 time NCAA champ. Olympic and world gold.

I feel like since we had a guy win 4 titles all kn the 90’s, he’s a decent choice.

[drag it 498]

1 hour ago, Katie said:

1960s -- Uetake: 1-1-1. Undefeated career. Olympic champ after sophomore season.

1970s -- Kemp: 2-1-1-1. Freshman runner-up finish was a split referees' decision loss (despite scoring the only takedown). World champ after senior season.

1980s -- Smith: 2-1-1. World champ after junior season and Olympic champ after senior season

1990s -- Neal: 4-2-1-1. Hodge winner. World champ and FILA outstanding wrestler after senior season.

2000s -- Cael: 1-1-1-1. Undefeated career. 3x Hodge winner.

2010s -- Dake: 1-1-1-1. Hodge winner. Beat returning Hodge winner for the title as a senior. Did not use a RS.

2020s -- TBD (Lee? Gable?)

 

Love the topic with a quibble that I think the proposed list has inconsistent standards in at least one important place in addition to the point made above about Tom Brands. 

The title is "greatest NCAA wrestlers," but it clearly seems to supplement NCAA results with international.  Otherwise I wouldn't see John Smith as the best in the 1980s; he'd seem to be behind Davis, Banach, and Zalesky (3x champs, 4x AAs), and probably M. Schultz (3x champ, kept Banach from 4), for starters. 

And I would think that if this was just NCAA, then in addition to Pat Smith (1-1-1-redshirt-1), probably Joe Williams (7-redshirt-1-1-1) and definitely McIlravy (1-1-2-redshirt-1) would be ahead of Neal.  (And Tom Brands as pointed out above would be the top NCAA/international guy.)

It's fine to factor international in, though -- it's your thread.  But if you're going to factor in international to the extent you did with Smith and Neal, I think you have no choice but to put Snyder ahead of Dake.  I've argued on the board that Dake had the best college career ever for the reasons you gave.  But Snyder was 2-1-1-1 with two world and one Olympic gold BEFORE he graduated, so if John Smith and (forgetting about the Brands issue) Neal are going to get bumps for international, then Snyder has got to be the 2010s guy.  (And Snyder ain't that far behind Dake based just on NCAA; his sole non-championship was in a tournament where he'd beaten defending champ Cox but got caught in a big move in the finals, plus he had a vision quest as impressive as Dake going after Taylor when he came out of redshirt to take on a guy 40 pounds heavier than him with an 80something match win streak.)

[Plasmodium 2,312]

And we can put Burroughs over Dake as well.  Dake didn't get international success until he was, what, 14 or 15?

[D3UC157 165]

10 hours ago, Katie said:

 

2010s -- Dake: 1-1-1-1. Hodge winner. Beat returning Hodge winner for the title as a senior. Did not use a RS.

 

Invalid. This is the internet, and David Taylor exists.

Therefore, by the Taylor-Dake Postulate, Taylor always wins out here. Regardless of the facts.

[Katie 1,076]

9 hours ago, drag it said:

Love the topic with a quibble that I think the proposed list has inconsistent standards in at least one important place in addition to the point made above about Tom Brands. 

The title is "greatest NCAA wrestlers," but it clearly seems to supplement NCAA results with international.  Otherwise I wouldn't see John Smith as the best in the 1980s; he'd seem to be behind Davis, Banach, and Zalesky (3x champs, 4x AAs), and probably M. Schultz (3x champ, kept Banach from 4), for starters. 

And I would think that if this was just NCAA, then in addition to Pat Smith (1-1-1-redshirt-1), probably Joe Williams (7-redshirt-1-1-1) and definitely McIlravy (1-1-2-redshirt-1) would be ahead of Neal.  (And Tom Brands as pointed out above would be the top NCAA/international guy.)

It's fine to factor international in, though -- it's your thread.  But if you're going to factor in international to the extent you did with Smith and Neal, I think you have no choice but to put Snyder ahead of Dake.  I've argued on the board that Dake had the best college career ever for the reasons you gave.  But Snyder was 2-1-1-1 with two world and one Olympic gold BEFORE he graduated, so if John Smith and (forgetting about the Brands issue) Neal are going to get bumps for international, then Snyder has got to be the 2010s guy.  (And Snyder ain't that far behind Dake based just on NCAA; his sole non-championship was in a tournament where he'd beaten defending champ Cox but got caught in a big move in the finals, plus he had a vision quest as impressive as Dake going after Taylor when he came out of redshirt to take on a guy 40 pounds heavier than him with an 80something match win streak.)

I think international results near the time of college competition provides a useful way of separating out multi-time NCAA champs, but not the only way.

As for the 1990s. I think Tom Brands actually has the better case, upon further review. But I’d still put Neal at #2 for the decade.

As for the 2000s.  I’m a big JB fan, but he falls into the 2000s.  I think Cael was world class while in college, but didn’t pursue world/Olympic gold until after college.

As for the 2010s.  The problem I have with Snyder is that he didn’t focus solely on NCAA wrestling, so I would favor someone who did.

 

[Drake_Mallard 373]

9 hours ago, Mokoma said:

I feel like since we had a guy win 4 titles all kn the 90’s, he’s a decent choice.

Pat? Not when you factor in international which OP clearly was.

[portajohn 464]

@Katie Your standards are confusing.  If you're going to use international success then it's not  "Greatest NCAA wrestler"  each decade but an all around "Greatest US wrestler" by decade. 

Edited March 27 by portajohn

[Elevator 307]

His record may straddle the 70's and 80's (1977-1981), but at his best Gene Mills was impressive both in the NCAA and on the world stage.  144-5-1 in NCAA matches w 107 pins and probably the most back points ever.  MOW at NCAA's in 1981.

Favored for 1980 Olympics in Moscow boycotted because of Russian aggression (invasion of Afghanistan). Pinned the Olympic Gold, Silver, and Brnoze medalist and Mills was OW at the World Championships in Japan.

[Mphillips 1,829]

1 hour ago, portajohn said:

@Katie Your standards are confusing. 

It's a bit pick and choose.

Docks KS for not focusing on College because he was two World and an Olympic title?

2 hours ago, Katie said:

The problem I have with Snyder is that he didn’t focus solely on NCAA wrestling, so I would favor someone who did.

Then docks CS for not focusing on International?

2 hours ago, Katie said:

I think Cael was world class while in college, but didn’t pursue world/Olympic gold until after college.

LOL...

[portajohn 464]

12 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

It's a bit pick and choose.

Docks KS for not focusing on College because he was two World and an Olympic title?

IMO if you're going to do a "Greatest NCAA athlete in insert sport" you only factor in their success competing in NCAA sanctioned events.  Success outside of NCAA competition is null and void. 

[Katie 1,076]

20 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

It's a bit pick and choose.

Docks KS for not focusing on College because he was two World and an Olympic title?

Then docks CS for not focusing on International?

LOL...

I believe Cael beat Eggum in 2001 at WTTs, and then declined to go to worlds, and then Eggum won a silver medal.  Seems world class to me. 

[Katie 1,076]

9 minutes ago, portajohn said:

IMO if you're going to do a "Greatest NCAA athlete in insert sport" you only factor in their success competing in NCAA sanctioned events.  Success outside of NCAA competition is null and void. 

Nah. I think you can look at dominant multi-time champs, and then use international success around their college years to separate them out.  Just my opinion.

Snyder is a somewhat different story, but I think he did the right thing by pursuing freestyle. 

Edited March 27 by Katie

[Plasmodium 2,312]

1 minute ago, Katie said:

Nah. I think you can look at dominant multi-time champs, and then use international success around the same time to separate them out.  Just my opinion.  Snyder is a somewhat different story, but I think he did the right thing by pursuing freestyle. 

Spot on.

[Mphillips 1,829]

10 minutes ago, portajohn said:

IMO if you're going to do a "Greatest NCAA athlete in insert sport" you only factor in their success competing in NCAA sanctioned events.  Success outside of NCAA competition is null and void. 

That depends on Katie. Sometimes it factors sometimes it don't...

[portajohn 464]

3 minutes ago, Katie said:

Nah. I think you can look at dominant multi-time champs, and then use international success around their college years to separate them out.  Just my opinion.

Snyder is a somewhat different story, but I think he did the right thing by pursuing freestyle. 

There's a glaring hole in using that as an assessment.  Folkstyke and Freestyle are different disciplines

[Katie 1,076]

3 minutes ago, portajohn said:

There's a glaring hole in using that as an assessment.  Folkstyke and Freestyle are different disciplines

They’re pretty similar.

Both disciplines evolved from catch wrestling.  The NCAA and predecessors created rules to make catch wrestling safe (with the result being called folkstyle or collegiate wrestling), as did UWW and predecessors (with the result being called freestyle).

And there is probably plenty of cross pollination there, too. 

Edited March 27 by Katie

[portajohn 464]

1 minute ago, Katie said:

They’re pretty similar.

Both disciplines evolved from catch wrestling.  The NCAA created rules to make catch wrestling safe (with the result being called folkstyle or collegiate wrestling), as did FILA/UWW (with the result being called freestyle).

And there is probably plenty of cross pollination there, too. 

There's no point in us debating. We'll just go in circles. But in understanding your thought process I can now say Tom Brady is the greatest college football player ever

[fadzaev2 549]

13 hours ago, Katie said:

1960s -- Uetake: 1-1-1. Undefeated career. Olympic champ after sophomore season.

1970s -- Kemp: 2-1-1-1. Freshman runner-up finish was a split referees' decision loss (despite scoring the only takedown). World champ after senior season.

1980s -- Smith: 2-1-1. World champ after junior season and Olympic champ after senior season

1990s -- Brands: ?-1-1-1. World champ after senior season

2000s -- Cael: 1-1-1-1. Undefeated career. 3x Hodge winner.

2010s -- Dake: 1-1-1-1. Hodge winner. Beat returning Hodge winner for the title as a senior. Did not use a RS.

2020s -- TBD (Lee? Gable?)

[Edited to add Brands as the 1990s greatest wrestler.]

Brands was 4th his freshman year  lost in the semis to Kendall Cross 1-0, lost to Jim Marting 6-5 for 3-4.

[fadzaev2 549]

How about Pat Smith for the 90's.....1-1-1-1  first 4 timer.

[portajohn 464]

2 minutes ago, fadzaev2 said:

How about Pat Smith for the 90's.....1-1-1-1  first 4 timer.

Don't even waste your time.  You didn't get the memo that NCAA success is secondary to international success when determining the greatest NCAA wrestlers

[fadzaev2 549]

2 minutes ago, portajohn said:

Don't even waste your time.  You didn't get the memo that NCAA success is secondary to international success when determining the greatest NCAA wrestlers

Read thru the banter after my post....but thanks....lol.  Set the criteria first.

 

[Mphillips 1,829]

2 minutes ago, portajohn said:

Don't even waste your time.  You didn't get the memo that NCAA success is secondary to international success when determining the greatest NCAA wrestlers

Sometimes...