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alabrake88

How to solve the medical forfeits and ducking

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2 hours ago, alabrake88 said:

Show me a scenario that happens? Unless Spencer sat out the entire year.  But then he wouldn't have enough matches to make eligibility. 

Joe Smith wrestled 174 all year until the end, Oklahoma st wrestled Geer st 197, Jacobe Smith st 184 and jojo at 174. All dropped and Smith had Marinelli round 1 post pigtail.

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1 hour ago, gowrestle said:

You can’t legislate ethics. And you don’t want to punish the wrestler that is legitimately injured. 
 

This is something we have to live with. 

But Injuries in most sports are not given a free pass. I think we have to either get rid of the team aspect all together and make it a truly individual sport which is how the athletes and some coaches treat it now or need to do something to curb these rampant issues that 100% keep the sport from growing in popularity. If you're a casual fan and you spend good money and time to go to a dual meet and the top 5 matchup you wanted to see doesnt happen when its 100% clear the person isnt injured it's a black eye on the sport and drives the casuals away. The casuals are what you need to grow a sport to bigger and bigger heights. 

At the very least these wrestlers that are straight up ducking people should be publicly shamed on the bigger wrestling outlets such as flo. 

Edited by alabrake88

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1 hour ago, alabrake88 said:

But Injuries in most sports are not given a free pass. I think we have to either get rid of the team aspect all together and make it a truly individual sport which is how the athletes and some coaches treat it now or need to do something to curb these rampant issues that 100% keep the sport from growing in popularity. If you're a casual fan and you spend good money and time to go to a dual meet and the top 5 matchup you wanted to see doesnt happen when its 100% clear the person isnt injured it's a black eye on the sport and drives the casuals away. The casuals are what you need to grow a sport to bigger and bigger heights. 

At the very least these wrestlers that are straight up ducking people should be publicly shamed on the bigger wrestling outlets such as flo. 

Forget media outlets, let's put them in shackles and let the fans throw rotten produce at them.

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1 hour ago, alabrake88 said:

But Injuries in most sports are not given a free pass. I think we have to either get rid of the team aspect all together and make it a truly individual sport which is how the athletes and some coaches treat it now or need to do something to curb these rampant issues that 100% keep the sport from growing in popularity. If you're a casual fan and you spend good money and time to go to a dual meet and the top 5 matchup you wanted to see doesnt happen when its 100% clear the person isnt injured it's a black eye on the sport and drives the casuals away. The casuals are what you need to grow a sport to bigger and bigger heights. 

At the very least these wrestlers that are straight up ducking people should be publicly shamed on the bigger wrestling outlets such as flo. 

All good points especially about drawing in casual fans. It still comes down as to how to do it without hurting the kid who is legitimately hurt. There is no doubt that Zeke Jones had his heavyweight duck Kerkvliet which gave him the free pass to the finals. Certainly public shaming may have an impact. 

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1 hour ago, alabrake88 said:

these rampant issues that 100% keep the sport from growing in popularity.

The problem you are trying to solve has nothing to do with wrestling's popularity. There is not a large group of people who looking for a sport to love but gave up on wrestling when Schultz forfeited to Kerkvliet. It's a niche sport, and that is OK. 

1 hour ago, alabrake88 said:

 its 100% clear the person isnt injured

How often is this the case? Not pretty sure, not you think so, but 100% clear?

Sitting out a dual or forfeiting in a tournament is like jaywalking. Right now, you give up the chance to compete and might or might not lose a seed over it. You're proposing throwing jaywalkers in jail rather than occasionally issuing a ticket, and that's too much.

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On 4/1/2022 at 4:28 PM, IronChef said:

The problem you are trying to solve has nothing to do with wrestling's popularity. There is not a large group of people who looking for a sport to love but gave up on wrestling when Schultz forfeited to Kerkvliet. It's a niche sport, and that is OK. 

How often is this the case? Not pretty sure, not you think so, but 100% clear?

Sitting out a dual or forfeiting in a tournament is like jaywalking. Right now, you give up the chance to compete and might or might not lose a seed over it. You're proposing throwing jaywalkers in jail rather than occasionally issuing a ticket, and that's too much.

There were dozens and dozens of cases of wrestlers not taking the mat that 100% were not injured this year. 

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On 4/1/2022 at 4:21 PM, gowrestle said:

All good points especially about drawing in casual fans. It still comes down as to how to do it without hurting the kid who is legitimately hurt. There is no doubt that Zeke Jones had his heavyweight duck Kerkvliet which gave him the free pass to the finals. Certainly public shaming may have an impact. 

Free pass to the finals lol.  Yes his seed benefitted by ducking, but to get to the finals he only had to beat last years runner up in the quarters, and in the semis could’ve had the only guy besides Gable to beat Kerk, except Cassioppi lost to Wood (who coincidentally, Kerk “ducked” in the 3/4 match).

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5 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Free pass to the finals lol.  Yes his seed benefitted by ducking, but to get to the finals he only had to beat last years runner up in the quarters, and in the semis could’ve had the only guy besides Gable to beat Kerk, except Cassioppi lost to Wood (who coincidentally, Kerk “ducked” in the 3/4 match).

You are delusional and bias. But, next year we will find out. 

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1 hour ago, gowrestle said:

You are delusional and bias. But, next year we will find out. 

Lol wut.  I'm not even saying Schultz would beat Kerk, but it's not bias to acknowledge that Kerk lost twice this year to Cassioppi, or that Schultz didn't have a "free pass to the finals."  Heavyweight is just stacked, not everyone is gonna be on the same side of the bracket.

Edited by 1032004

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On 4/1/2022 at 3:28 PM, IronChef said:

The problem you are trying to solve has nothing to do with wrestling's popularity. There is not a large group of people who looking for a sport to love but gave up on wrestling when Schultz forfeited to Kerkvliet. It's a niche sport, and that is OK. 

How often is this the case? Not pretty sure, not you think so, but 100% clear?

Sitting out a dual or forfeiting in a tournament is like jaywalking. Right now, you give up the chance to compete and might or might not lose a seed over it. You're proposing throwing jaywalkers in jail rather than occasionally issuing a ticket, and that's too much.

Mostly agree but I think the problem is guys don't lose a seed over it.  The easiest solution is making MFF count as a loss, even if it's just in the conference tournaments.

That doesn't solve the ducking in duals issue though.  For that I think we just need to make duals matter by having duals decide the team champion :-).

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There were dozens and dozens of cases of wrestlers not taking the mat that 100% were not injured this year. 

Again, how can you be 100% sure of this? You are guessing. Plus, what's injured to you? If I sprained my ankle last week and I'm 90%, can I sit out without you claiming I'm "not injured?" What if I had the flu four days ago?

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8 minutes ago, IronChef said:


Again, how can you be 100% sure of this? You are guessing. Plus, what's injured to you? If I sprained my ankle last week and I'm 90%, can I sit out without you claiming I'm "not injured?" What if I had the flu four days ago?

Exactly what I was trying to say as well earlier in the post.  There is no way to prove this, and even if so, coaches make the final decisions.  If we don't want ducking, there has to be a motivation not to duck.  However; making choices that benefit your wrestler/student athlete is up to them and not fans.

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42 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

If we don't want ducking, there has to be a motivation not to duck.

Therein lies the problem.  Something has to be done to make the regular season “relevant” even if that means tinkering/adjusting the post-season.

Counting mff as losses will certainly help to an extent but still won’t discourage coaches from not putting out their best lineup.

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2 hours ago, IronChef said:


Again, how can you be 100% sure of this? You are guessing. Plus, what's injured to you? If I sprained my ankle last week and I'm 90%, can I sit out without you claiming I'm "not injured?" What if I had the flu four days ago?

Everything that isnt a Win is a loss. That fixes nearly all issues. If they are injured oh well. If you cant compete at the moment of competition it's a loss. Same as any other sport. 

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Just now, alabrake88 said:

Everything that isnt a Win is a loss. That fixes nearly all issues. If they are injured oh well. If you cant compete at the moment of competition it's a loss. Same as any other sport. 

I'm not arguing against your silly solution, because it's really dumb. I'm arguing against you saying that dozens of healthy wrestlers sat out of duals this year even though you have no inside info nor a real definition of injured.

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22 hours ago, IronChef said:

I'm not arguing against your silly solution, because it's really dumb. I'm arguing against you saying that dozens of healthy wrestlers sat out of duals this year even though you have no inside info nor a real definition of injured.

You're being purposely naive if you dont think there were dozens and dozens of cases in dual meets where wrestlers were simply sitting out. 

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