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App State Coach JohnMark Bentley says Millner was being recruited at NCAA's

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33 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He recruited those wrestlers to Virginia Tech, it's not like he went and grabbed guys off a team he had no relationship with.  They wanted to follow him.  It's funny, I have direct knowledge on this issue, at the Florida duals this year I met Jay Borschel and Dan LeClere's dad, and they were still hot about it.

 

These two posts don't make any sense.  You said you immediately thought of Cael and Max Dean and Hildebrandt when you thought of poaching, and then you said one post later you don't consider it poaching.

I agree in general.  My only point is that, under the previous system, only the student-athletes, who had the least power, were constrained in any way by regulation.  If the choice is no regulation or only the students are constrained, I don't think it's right to regulate only the least powerful.

Well I THOUGHT of Cael on the poaching because of Hildenbrandt and Dean, but didn't think he was straight up a poacher because I could think of those possible alleviating factors from the next post. My bad for not clarifying that in the first post. Tom Brands, on the other hand, nearly sank VT's program when he poached those guys, and there's no doubt at all that Tom poached VT. Those boys accepted schollies to VT, then reneged after Brands "recruited" them to Iowa. That has never sat well with me. I like Hawkeye wrestling, but that VT thing still bothers me. 

Agreed the boys should be able to move around. They aren't slaves after all. 

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Sanderson did some poaching getting NIU's Duke Burke to transfer to ISU. NIU coaches were pissed. He even had the balls to go attempt to get a guy on the Iowa roster when at ISU. 

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1 minute ago, Hufarted said:

Well I THOUGHT of Cael on the poaching because of Hildenbrandt and Dean, but didn't think he was straight up a poacher because I could think of those possible alleviating factors from the next post. My bad for not clarifying that in the first post. Tom Brands, on the other hand, nearly sank VT's program when he poached those guys, and there's no doubt at all that Tom poached VT. Those boys accepted schollies to VT, then reneged after Brands "recruited" them to Iowa. That has never sat well with me. I like Hawkeye wrestling, but that VT thing still bothers me. 

Agreed the boys should be able to move around. They aren't slaves after all. 

On the VT boys, I can just tell you that Mr. Borschel and Leclere deny it.  Said it was totally the boys call, Brands neither asked nor promised them anything, and they felt VT had reneged on them, that the potential had been discussed w/ admin before they signed.

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1 minute ago, BLT said:

Sanderson did some poaching getting NIU's Duke Burke to transfer to ISU. NIU coaches were pissed. He even had the balls to go attempt to get a guy on the Iowa roster when at ISU. 

Which Iowa guy did he go after?

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2 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

On the VT boys, I can just tell you that Mr. Borschel and Leclere deny it.  Said it was totally the boys call, Brands neither asked nor promised them anything, and they felt VT had reneged on them, that the potential had been discussed w/ admin before they signed.

I wonder why they think VT reneged on them? Did VT yank their schollies or something? I could certainly understand guys transferring after something like that. 

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8 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

idk what that durant thing means.

legit, i don't know the reference. 

He was very publicly caught using multiple burners to argue with random eggs on twitter and comment about himself on posts from notable media members.  

(I don't actually think that's what you're doing, assume you just misread who was quoted).  

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1 minute ago, Hufarted said:

I wonder why they think VT reneged on them? Did VT yank their schollies or something? I could certainly understand guys transferring after something like that. 

They believe there was an agreement if Brands left, they would be allowed to leave; that was part of why they signed so far from home.

EDIT:  The only reason I post about the conversation with them is because it was in line with what they publicly claimed at the time.  I'll keep anything that wasn't previously publicly discussed private.

Edited by VakAttack

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11 minutes ago, Hufarted said:

Well I THOUGHT of Cael on the poaching because of Hildenbrandt and Dean, but didn't think he was straight up a poacher because I could think of those possible alleviating factors from the next post. My bad for not clarifying that in the first post. Tom Brands, on the other hand, nearly sank VT's program when he poached those guys, and there's no doubt at all that Tom poached VT. Those boys accepted schollies to VT, then reneged after Brands "recruited" them to Iowa. That has never sat well with me. I like Hawkeye wrestling, but that VT thing still bothers me. 

Agreed the boys should be able to move around. They aren't slaves after all. 

Sorry, but this is such a horrible take, it is downright laughable.  The wrestlers in question were all recruited by Brands to VTech in the first place.  By leaving, they all lost an ENTIRE YEAR of eligibility.  You don't do that if you were "poached".  

It's actually pretty damn simple and they all went on record VERY vocally, including their parents, that they went to VTech to wrestle for Brands and then went to Iowa to wrestle for Brands.

If your case is so strong, then did Sanderson not poach ISU by bringing Taylor, Cyler, Long and Brown to PSU?  If not, what exactly is the difference?

 

Edited by MSU158

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i promise i have no burners. lol. i just read it wrong.

as far as cael giving a pitch to kerk on that trip, i don't doubt it. i'm just saying i wholly doubt that was his reason for going on the trip. as i said, he's been on several and he had guys on that team

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17 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Sorry, but this is such a horrible take, it is downright laughable.  The wrestlers in question were all recruited by Brands to VTech in the first place.  By leaving, they all lost an ENTIRE YEAR of eligibility.  You don't do that if you were "poached".  

It's actually pretty damn simple and they all went on record VERY vocally, including their parents, that they went to VTech to wrestle for Brands and then went to Iowa to wrestle for Brands.

If your case is so strong, then did Sanderson not poach ISU by bringing Taylor, Cyler, Long and Brown to PSU?  If not, what exactly is the difference?

 

Good point on Taylor, Cyler, Long and Brown. On the other hand that didn't nearly sink ISU's program, unlike what Brands did to VT. As for those guys being RECRUITED by Brands, Brands was WORKING IN THE CAPACITY OF HEAD COACH OF VT WHEN HE RECRUITED THEM. I don't blame the kids if they actually signed on and said they wanted to wrestle for Brands, but I do blame Brands. What he did was highly unethical (taking VT's money while knowing he was going to take all those wrestlers if he left the school), at the very least. Same on Cael, I suppose since he brought those guys over from ISU. But Cael isn't as big an ass as Tom, so I don't feel bad about thinking of Cael more kindly. 

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13 minutes ago, Hufarted said:

Good point on Taylor, Cyler, Long and Brown. On the other hand that didn't nearly sink ISU's program, unlike what Brands did to VT. As for those guys being RECRUITED by Brands, Brands was WORKING IN THE CAPACITY OF HEAD COACH OF VT WHEN HE RECRUITED THEM. I don't blame the kids if they actually signed on and said they wanted to wrestle for Brands, but I do blame Brands. What he did was highly unethical (taking VT's money while knowing he was going to take all those wrestlers if he left the school), at the very least. Same on Cael, I suppose since he brought those guys over from ISU. But Cael isn't as big an ass as Tom, so I don't feel bad about thinking of Cael more kindly. 

is this an iowa fan trying to make psu fans look bad lmao

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8 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

is this an iowa fan trying to make psu fans look bad lmao

LOL, I am an Iowa wrestling fan, but I also like PSU. I like many teams. Don't write too much into it, I just enjoy high level folk wrestling wherever I can see it. Also: Tom and Terry Brands are both asses. Great wrestlers, yeah, arguably great coaches, yeah, and asses, inarguably true. That doesn't mean I don't like the Brands' boys, btw, I just recognize them as the asses they are. Tom's gruff interviews are ****ing hilarious! 

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31 minutes ago, Hufarted said:

Good point on Taylor, Cyler, Long and Brown. On the other hand that didn't nearly sink ISU's program, unlike what Brands did to VT. As for those guys being RECRUITED by Brands, Brands was WORKING IN THE CAPACITY OF HEAD COACH OF VT WHEN HE RECRUITED THEM. I don't blame the kids if they actually signed on and said they wanted to wrestle for Brands, but I do blame Brands. What he did was highly unethical (taking VT's money while knowing he was going to take all those wrestlers if he left the school), at the very least. Same on Cael, I suppose since he brought those guys over from ISU. But Cael isn't as big an ass as Tom, so I don't feel bad about thinking of Cael more kindly. 

I'm not sure I understand your logic here.  Should Brands have not been allowed to take the clearly superior job?  Not allowed the kids to transfer to follow him?  Unless you're trying to argue that he recruited them after he left to ditch VT, which again, he and they deny.

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28 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

If your case is so strong, then did Sanderson not poach ISU by bring Taylor, Cyler, Long and Brown to PSU?  If not, what exactly is the difference?

One big difference is the return on investment the respective schools got for the athletes accepting scholarships.  The VT 5 (Metcalf, Borschel, Slaton, Leet & LeClere) all redshirted their first year and none of them ever represented Virginia Tech in an official match.

On the other hand only Brown is somewhat comparable.  He redshirted his first year, went on a two-year Mormon mission, and then followed Sanderson to Penn State. 

Taylor never even attended Iowa State, Long had already been dismissed, and Cyler had given the Cyclones three years of varsity action (including an AA finish) prior to being released to join his brother at PSU.

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3 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

One big difference is the return on investment the respective schools got for the athletes accepting scholarships.  The VT 5 (Metcalf, Borschel, Slaton, Leet & LeClere) all redshirted their first year and none of them ever represented Virginia Tech in an official match.

On the other hand only Brown is somewhat comparable.  He redshirted his first year, went on a two-year Mormon mission, and then followed Sanderson to Penn State. 

Taylor never even attended Iowa State, Long had already been dismissed, and Cyler had given the Cyclones three years of varsity action (including an AA finish) prior to being released to join his brother at PSU.

There are always going to be differences in circumstances and to be clear I don't consider EITHER poaching.  I just find it hypocritical to call one situation so strongly, when kids literally lost a year of eligibility in the process, while acting like the other is perfectly fine.

Also, what does it actually say about a coach if he leaves and NONE of his wrestlers want to follow him?  The best coaches are going to have kids leave to wrestle for him and it should happen.  Even Pucillo followed Ryan to tOSU from Hofstra...

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6 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I'm not sure I understand your logic here.  Should Brands have not been allowed to take the clearly superior job?  Not allowed the kids to transfer to follow him?  Unless you're trying to argue that he recruited them after he left to ditch VT, which again, he and they deny.

What I'm saying is that Tom Brands was working for VT, and he recruited those guys to VT and took them with him when he went to Iowa. That seems pretty unethical to me, and rather dishonest to the employer (VT) he was working for. It's like working in a car factory and on the day you take the job at Chevrolet you say "I'm going to be taking these 5 engines with me" when the engines are actually owned by Ford. That's probably a terrible analogy. Sure, the boys liked Brands and wanted to wrestle for him, but they are just kids and Tom was the adult. Anyway, in reality he was recruiting for Iowa while getting paid by VT (even if he didn't realize it at the time), and I still don't like it. You could say that Tom wasn't expecting to get the job at Iowa, but Lenny was on the way out and everybody knew it. Who else were they going after but Tom? The whole thing still stinks to high heaven in my nostrils. I realize Iowa fans will argue to high heaven for Brands, and that's fine, he managed to squeeze out of couple titles from that extra large "recruiting class", but not everybody here (as you know) was thrilled about the VT debacle. 

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4 minutes ago, Hufarted said:

What I'm saying is that Tom Brands was working for VT, and he recruited those guys to VT and took them with him when he went to Iowa. That seems pretty unethical to me, and rather dishonest to the employer (VT) he was working for. It's like working in a car factory and on the day you take the job at Chevrolet you say "I'm going to be taking these 5 engines with me" when the engines are actually owned by Ford. That's probably a terrible analogy. Sure, the boys liked Brands and wanted to wrestle for him, but they are just kids and Tom was the adult. Anyway, in reality he was recruiting for Iowa while getting paid by VT (even if he didn't realize it at the time), and I still don't like it. You could say that Tom wasn't expecting to get the job at Iowa, but Lenny was on the way out and everybody knew it. Who else were they going after but Tom? The whole thing still stinks to high heaven in my nostrils. I realize Iowa fans will argue to high heaven for Brands, and that's fine, he managed to squeeze out of couple titles from that extra large "recruiting class", but not everybody here (as you know) was thrilled about the VT debacle. 

I think you mean Jimmy Zalesky, not Lenny.  Again, your logic doesn't make any sense.

He was working at Virginia Tech.  Should he not have recruited athletes to Virginia Tech?

He got the job offer at Iowa.  Should he not be allowed to take it?

The athletes he recruited wanted to follow him.  Should he not have allowed it?  How would he have stopped them?

You're not making any sense on how any of that played out unless you're alleging that he illegally induced them to follow him and give up their eligibility to do so, which you seem reluctant to actually do.

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1 hour ago, Hufarted said:

I wonder why they think VT reneged on them? Did VT yank their schollies or something? I could certainly understand guys transferring after something like that. 

Don't know about that but isn't there a car still rusting away in Blacksburg because the keys are still sitting on the counter top.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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