NIL & Portal Getting Nasty

[simple 301]

20 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

Let's do some math and see where my tangent ends up.

D1 schools with wrestling: 78

Estimated average team size by end of season: 25

78 schools * 25 team members = 1950 wrestlers

10 weight classes * 8 podium spots = 80 All Americans

1950 wrestlers - 80 All Americans = 1870 wrestlers looking up. 1870 / 1950 = 95.897%

80 AAs / 1950 wrestlers = 4.1% of all wrestlers will AA in a given year

1 AA / 1950 wrestlers = 0.005% of all wrestlers

The wrestling community is looking at the NIL landscape with Reggie Bush glasses. Rather than focus on 0.005% at the absolute top end of a data set that are getting a house/car/$100k duffel bag  NIL deal, we should be focused on the 95.897%. Remember, our sport allows up to 9.9 scholarships but we are all too well aware that the majority of schools do not fulfill that allotment. So how are kids paying for school, living expenses, etc? Do you think all parents can help, especially with that lovely 7% inflation or is Sallie Mae heavily chipping in to the bloated educational financial system like the vindictive loan shark that she is?

So whether you thinking of Nick Suriano or Real Woods or Charles Small, are you upset at a college student taking advantage of what is finally fairly and legally available today when two years ago they were provided with nothing at all? 

America has a weird heightened sense of amateurism, that's for sure.

I don’t understand your point. The 95% are getting literally nothing from NIL deals.

[Fletcher 1,124]

The more I read about this, it sounds like Lee's dad may have been reaching out to friends & acquaintances to check their kid's interest level in Iowa, but was also careful to tell them that before he could make any formal introductions, their kid had to be in the portal first. In this context, it sounds OK to me.

At what point does a conversation between friends become recruiting? Who knows.

[drag it 496]

1 hour ago, Konquest said:

That's not from this year in Detroit.  O'Connor didn't have long braided hair in Detroit.  Which isn't to say he didn't deserve a personal pizza after his gutsy performance this year.

Correct. The tweet has a 2021 date, confirming your point. 

Also presumably last year at 149 he was cutting a lot more weight needing pizza replenishment. 

I would also agree that his making AA this year was as impressive as winning last year. Amazing guts.  

[Idaho 1,392]

Since NIL $ can also be used by the athlete to pay tuition for school, does the 9.9 scholarship limit really matter anymore? Is this yet another example of skirting the scholarship limit (which may already be happening anyway) and making the rich richer? 

[newuser69 61]

What I find interesting is how multiple sources have been stating these NIL deals are way more lucrative than we previously thought. I'd love to see some numbers there. Also, kind of fun we have almost a yearly free-agency period now. 

[Show_Me 341]

9 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Is this yet another example of skirting the scholarship limit (which may already be happening anyway) and making the rich richer? 

This

[Boompa 205]

I know alumni are considered being in the same group as boosters when it comes to NCAA rules.  Parents of current athletes?  Don't know.  I know on the PIAA level, parents can recruit all day as long as the coaching staff isn't involved.

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,173]

5 hours ago, VakAttack said:

Right. Except, it seems likely they're Mineo's sources. 

Decent chance, for sure.  Putting it out in the open is probably their best defense.  Reporting it behind the scenes most likely leads to nothing, considering it would be very difficult to prove what's alleged.  But now with this out there it becomes a little trickier for O'Connor and Iowa (if he were actually considering doing it).  

Parents recruiting on behalf of a program is 100% an NCAA violation, and is totally separate from NIL.  The NCAA does still enforce some rules.  Just not relating to money.  

[wrestlingphish 1,032]

29 minutes ago, Boompa said:

I know alumni are considered being in the same group as boosters when it comes to NCAA rules.  Parents of current athletes?  Don't know.  I know on the PIAA level, parents can recruit all day as long as the coaching staff isn't involved.

Boosters and their companies can have NIL deals with athletes.

[wrestlingphish 1,032]

[ionel 2,714]

1 hour ago, Idaho said:

Since NIL $ can also be used by the athlete to pay tuition for school, does the 9.9 scholarship limit really matter anymore? Is this yet another example of skirting the scholarship limit (which may already be happening anyway) and making the rich richer? 

This was discussed ~ couple years ago when NIL announced, 4 ways to run a wrestling program:

1) keep it legal 9.9,

2) the camp $s etc workaround,

3) the RTC system,

4) the NIL booster system

Of course the best system for 9.9+ becomes 

5) combination of 2, 3, 4 move the $s around,

However, if the NCAA has no interest in doing anything (they didn't for 2, 3) then we might as well go back to

6) bag of cash - booster direct to athlete.

 :(

[Idaho 1,392]

16 minutes ago, ionel said:

This was discussed ~ couple years ago when NIL announced, 4 ways to run a wrestling program:

1) keep it legal 9.9,

2) the camp $s etc workaround,

3) the RTC system,

4) the NIL booster system

Of course the best system for 9.9+ becomes 

5) combination of 2, 3, 4 move the $s around,

However, if the NCAA has no interest in doing anything (they didn't for 2, 3) then we might as well go back to

6) bag of cash - booster direct to athlete.

 :(

Yep - I agree - I'm not for wrestling socialism by any means, but there needs to be some sort of level playing field, or college wrestling as a whole will be reduced to a shell if anything. How can Bakersfield, who has to fundraise their entire budget for wrestling year after year, possibly compete in the NIL world? If you say, well they aren't doing it right they haven't called alumni, blah blah blah and it's their own fault, then you have never had to fundraise.  It's almost like when MLB had to go to revenue sharing. 

 

[portajohn 462]

41 minutes ago, ionel said:

This was discussed ~ couple years ago when NIL announced, 4 ways to run a wrestling program:

1) keep it legal 9.9,

2) the camp $s etc workaround,

3) the RTC system,

4) the NIL booster system

Of course the best system for 9.9+ becomes 

5) combination of 2, 3, 4 move the $s around,

However, if the NCAA has no interest in doing anything (they didn't for 2, 3) then we might as well go back to

6) bag of cash - booster direct to athlete.

 :(

 

13 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Yep - I agree - I'm not for wrestling socialism by any means, but there needs to be some sort of level playing field, or college wrestling as a whole will be reduced to a shell if anything. How can Bakersfield, who has to fundraise their entire budget for wrestling year after year, possibly compete in the NIL world? If you say, well they aren't doing it right they haven't called alumni, blah blah blah and it's their own fault, then you have never had to fundraise.  It's almost like when MLB had to go to revenue sharing. 

 

Oversight and regulation is not socialism.  Anyways, I agree with both of your points.

[Idaho 1,392]

35 minutes ago, portajohn said:

 

Oversight and regulation is not socialism.  Anyways, I agree with both of your points.

Yep I agree 

[Billyhoyle 2,488]

Just wait until Novo decides he wants Princeton to win an NCAA title. These recruits will get like 10 Bitcoin each. That guy knows how to spend money (and make it). 

Edited April 8 by Billyhoyle

[ShakaAloha 430]

2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

Just wait until Novo decides he wants Princeton to win an NCAA title. These recruits will get like 10 Bitcoin each. That guy knows how to spend money (and make it). 

That's a good point, but the problem is most elite recruits won't be able to get admitted into Princeton

[Billyhoyle 2,488]

20 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

That's a good point, but the problem is most elite recruits won't be able to get admitted into Princeton

A check to the university would solve that problem.  

[ShakaAloha 430]

2 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

A check to the university would solve that problem.  

It would create an even bigger problem.  See Operation Varsity Blues...you posted on the thread about that.

[Billyhoyle 2,488]

2 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

It would create an even bigger problem.  See Operation Varsity Blues...you posted on the thread about that.

The reason the Varsity Blues scandal was illegal is because they paid the coaches, and the coaches then committed fraud. Universities are allowed to change admission standards based on donations to the institution. Jared Kushner is one of the more famous examples, but it happens every year, especially at the ivies. College admissions and university fundraising is a dirty business. 

Edited April 8 by Billyhoyle

[jp157 548]

2 hours ago, portajohn said:

 

Oversight and regulation is not socialism.  Anyways, I agree with both of your points.

The fact that people actually do think proper regulation and oversight is da “socialism” has made my head hurt for awhile

[TBar1977 4,596]

Occam's Razor is in play in some of the stories on these msg. boards. Kinda funny someone recently lectured me that I didn't know what that is. How can it possibly not be seen to be recently in play? 

Edited April 11 by TBar1977

[Wrestle81 83]

Don't think we will ever see a day where teams like, American, Edinboro, Hofstra or Central Michigan make a run at the top 5...which they all have done in the past 20/25 years.

[TexRef 113]

On 4/7/2022 at 3:07 PM, VakAttack said:

I understand the reaction.  But Minnow is a grade A tool bag who just wants engagement to amplify himself, he's a grifter, a parasite on the wrestling body.  He thrives off of attention, so the only solution is not to give him any.  You can discuss him being an idiot without actively engaging him or linking to any of his content.

EDIT:  It's also his pattern that, when he gets something wrong as the "information broker" often does, he gets extra froggy afterwards.

So you're saying he acts like a politician?

[VakAttack 4,036]

Occam's Razor is in play in some of the stories on these msg. boards. Kinda funny someone recently lectured me that I didn't know what that is. How can it possibly not be seen to be recently in play? 

Don't be a a wuss and subtweet people.

If I was dismissing the claims you could accuse me of ignoring Occam's Razor. I included in (I believe) every one of my posts on the subject that it's entirely possible that Larry Lee did what he was accused of doing. I don't know Larry Lee, I'm not going to swear by his character or what he'd do in ant given situation. But Occam's razor doesn't mean "believe anything any accuser says ever". We evaluate the accusations based on the credibility of the people or persons making the accusation. Right now, Minnow is the only person making any accusations, and he's proven himself to be hardly a trustworthy source.

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[VakAttack 4,036]

So you're saying he acts like a politician?

Hard to believe but this is a grave insult to politicians.

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