What is the solution to NIL and Poaching?

[Idaho 1,344]

Obviously there are several threads all addressing NIL and poaching. What is a reasonable solution to what is starting and will continue to be a problem? Obviously, some teams have very wealthy boosters and able to pay out NIL. This enables schools to poach wrestlers developed by low and mid tier programs that have worked hard to recruit and develop. So what is the solution? 

I am not saying any of these work, but maybe some form. Being a non-revenue sport makes it  harder.

 

Professional teams have salary caps and revenue sharing. Is some form of this even possible.

Rules and regulations changes to include parents, boosters, family members etc. to be prohibited from any form of recruiting. Other rules and regulation changes? Would this even matter? 

MLB and other sports have something tied to losing a player to another team. Obviously it wouldn't be a draft pick. This is difficult for wrestling because there is no revenue and not much to use to reconcile any type of losses - but could teams losing significant wrestlers be afforded something? 

Do the other 90% of wrestling teams outside of the top tier band together and play hardball? Do they  to demand a large payout to dual their team or not dual? If you are going to poach talent why should we reward you with tournaments and duals?  Is protest or lockout of these teams outside of  own conference obligations feasible or would it create larger problems.

What are you solutions? 

 

[TripNSweep 762]

Let's sacrifice them to our Gods! 

[MNRodent 226]

Make every NIL deal public record.  Make sure it get's counted as earned income and taxed accordingly.  Every university, donor, or athlete that doesn't report it gets hit with a gigantic IRS penalty.  Won't necessarily stop all shady activity, but at least will shine a light on it so that all parties can take action as they see fit.

 

[BerniePragle 382]

Very interesting stuff.  I like that you are trying to offer some "quasi-solutions" that people can then build on, find fault with, whatever.
I kinda think the first thing would be to define the problem, which you have done quite well.  The next step would be to quantify the problem.  How big is it, how widespread?  I don't think we know, but many of us probably anticipate it getting much worse, maybe to the point of being a major problem in our sport.
One thing I have seen in my nearly 70 years is that once a sense of doing the right thing, of integrity, is lost it really is difficult to then have a fair, equitable, productive system.  This is true in business, government, sports, even personal relationships.  It's difficult to make rules when some people think the rules don't apply to them.  It's even more difficult when the rules are vague or easily circumvented.
I have worked for companies with many different cultures and different management structures.  The best, most productive I've worked for have a technically competent individual with an unquestioned reputation for integrity and action at the top.  With this in mind, I would like to see a sort of Commissioner/Czar in charge of NCAA wrestling rules and enforcement.  Somebody such as Jordan Burroughs.  I just think any sort of "committee" just won't work.  (Obviously I've had no input as far as actual rules.  Sorry.)
 

[Mphillips 1,732]

1 hour ago, MNRodent said:

Make every NIL deal public record. 

I remember this from last fall. No idea of the accuracy...

https://nilcollegeathletes.com/athletes

[southend 241]

So you think NIL needs a solution?

It is the solution !for athletes to be independent from their respective schools and  generating income by their popularity. 

[Idaho 1,344]

2 hours ago, BerniePragle said:

Very interesting stuff.  I like that you are trying to offer some "quasi-solutions" that people can then build on, find fault with, whatever.
I kinda think the first thing would be to define the problem, which you have done quite well.  The next step would be to quantify the problem.  How big is it, how widespread?  I don't think we know, but many of us probably anticipate it getting much worse, maybe to the point of being a major problem in our sport.
One thing I have seen in my nearly 70 years is that once a sense of doing the right thing, of integrity, is lost it really is difficult to then have a fair, equitable, productive system.  This is true in business, government, sports, even personal relationships.  It's difficult to make rules when some people think the rules don't apply to them.  It's even more difficult when the rules are vague or easily circumvented.
I have worked for companies with many different cultures and different management structures.  The best, most productive I've worked for have a technically competent individual with an unquestioned reputation for integrity and action at the top.  With this in mind, I would like to see a sort of Commissioner/Czar in charge of NCAA wrestling rules and enforcement.  Somebody such as Jordan Burroughs.  I just think any sort of "committee" just won't work.  (Obviously I've had no input as far as actual rules.  Sorry.)
 

Great points @BerniePragle

[TBar1977 4,532]

3 hours ago, MNRodent said:

Make every NIL deal public record.  Make sure it get's counted as earned income and taxed accordingly.  Every university, donor, or athlete that doesn't report it gets hit with a gigantic IRS penalty.  Won't necessarily stop all shady activity, but at least will shine a light on it so that all parties can take action as they see fit.

 

Seems to me that with NIL deals the athlete gets paid and a donor businessperson is doing the paying. They would be taking that amount as a business deduction. Make it a gift instead so that they lose the write off. 

If they give to a fund and they can't self direct then perhaps that can be a charitable contribution.

[jmez 6]

There is no solution, you will never get the genie back in the bottle. You think wrestling is bad, follow what is going on in football.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Show_Me 340]

Idaho -

Great thought-provoking post !

I don’t have any “realistic” solutions.

But … when the SUM of (RTC + scholarships + NIL money) is at least 10 times greater for a handful of Power Programs than it is for the other 60-70 Programs :

1) Not good for retaining or growing the number of D1 Programs,

2) Widens the gap significantly between the haves & have nots,

3) results in the same 6 to 10 schools competing for Team Trophies every season,

4) reduces the number of Programs that can have an AA wrestler due to “transfer portal poaching”

How are any of the above 4 points good for the long term health/success of D1 Wrestling ?

[ShakaAloha 426]

22 minutes ago, jmez said:

There is no solution, you will never get the genie back in the bottle. You think wrestling is bad, follow what is going on in football.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
 

Agreed, and Div. I men's basketball is almost as bad as football.

[jp157 513]

22 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

Idaho -

Great thought-provoking post !

I don’t have any “realistic” solutions.

But … when the SUM of (RTC + scholarships + NIL money) is at least 10 times greater for a handful of Power Programs than it is for the other 60-70 Programs :

1) Not good for retaining or growing the number of D1 Programs,

2) Widens the gap significantly between the haves & have nots,

3) results in the same 6 to 10 schools competing for Team Trophies every season,

4) reduces the number of Programs that can have an AA wrestler due to “transfer portal poaching”

How are any of the above 4 points good for the long term health/success of D1 Wrestling ?

Honestly I think a lot of wrestling people need to make peace with the fact that one of two things needs to happen. 
 

1. Implement measures to help ensure at least a modicum of competitive balance and depth.. or actually act like you want competition

 

2. accept the fact wrestling will be nothing but a super exclusive club sport that’s maybe at most, a dozen college colleges and stop whining about programs dying 

 

But I honestly feel being that brutally honest won’t happen 

[Idaho 1,344]

47 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

Idaho -

Great thought-provoking post !

I don’t have any “realistic” solutions.

But … when the SUM of (RTC + scholarships + NIL money) is at least 10 times greater for a handful of Power Programs than it is for the other 60-70 Programs :

1) Not good for retaining or growing the number of D1 Programs,

2) Widens the gap significantly between the haves & have nots,

3) results in the same 6 to 10 schools competing for Team Trophies every season,

4) reduces the number of Programs that can have an AA wrestler due to “transfer portal poaching”

How are any of the above 4 points good for the long term health/success of D1 Wrestling ?

All valid points! 

[Idaho 1,344]

17 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Honestly I think a lot of wrestling people need to make peace with the fact that one of two things needs to happen. 
 

1. Implement measures to help ensure at least a modicum of competitive balance and depth.. or actually act like you want competition

 

2. accept the fact wrestling will be nothing but a super exclusive club sport that’s maybe at most, a dozen college colleges and stop whining about programs dying 

 

But I honestly feel being that brutally honest won’t happen 

Good term - competitive balance - probably the best way to describe what is needed. 

[bnwtwg 1,065]

Just now, Idaho said:

Good term - competitive balance - probably the best way to describe what is needed. 

Would align well with @Show_Me’s #4 of AA transfers but go a step further. The higher you finish at NCAAs, the fewer previous national qualifier transfers you can accept to your team, grad school transfers notwithstanding.

I’m staunchly pro-athlete, anti-amateurism, anti-NCAA but that’s not going to change anytime soon and this is probably going to be the only way to keep a competitive balance.

[jp157 513]

37 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Would align well with @Show_Me’s #4 of AA transfers but go a step further. The higher you finish at NCAAs, the fewer previous national qualifier transfers you can accept to your team, grad school transfers notwithstanding.

I’m staunchly pro-athlete, anti-amateurism, anti-NCAA but that’s not going to change anytime soon and this is probably going to be the only way to keep a competitive balance.

As a former DI athlete. I agree shamamatuerism should go.. but people need to start being honest about realities and take appropriate steps or just accept the inevitable 

[wrestlingphish 1,029]

3 hours ago, Show_Me said:

Idaho -

Great thought-provoking post !

I don’t have any “realistic” solutions.

But … when the SUM of (RTC + scholarships + NIL money) is at least 10 times greater for a handful of Power Programs than it is for the other 60-70 Programs :

1) Not good for retaining or growing the number of D1 Programs,

2) Widens the gap significantly between the haves & have nots,

3) results in the same 6 to 10 schools competing for Team Trophies every season,

4) reduces the number of Programs that can have an AA wrestler due to “transfer portal poaching”

How are any of the above 4 points good for the long term health/success of D1 Wrestling ?

All of these things were already happening before NIL so trying to blame NIL for these outcomes is hilarious.

[scribe 1,835]

7 hours ago, southend said:

So you think NIL needs a solution?

It is the solution !for athletes to be independent from their respective schools and  generating income by their popularity. 

I think it’s more like a revenue heavy program stocking up on free agents. Which is decent for the athletes. Decent for the ncaa in revenue rich sports, but short sided on meagerly funded programs in vulnerable sports such as wrestling. 

a standard capitalistic system solution is to identify monopolies and protect the consumer with antitrust devices. Fair trade guidelines. 

 

[scribe 1,835]

This whole thing points to wrestling being reduced to <20 or so programs who can realistically compete in this environment without crapping typical traditional base level budgets away. We’ve known wrestling to be headed this way. The free agency logically will accelerate the process. 

[scribe 1,835]

What really makes this complicated is the mixture of public and private funding. In some cases, private vs public funding.

How about athletes being able to sell their brand to sponsors without the explicit agreement to render services to a particular program? This is a disingenuous business deal to begin with and outta count as toward the total budget of a program if stipulated implied or explicit. 
 

student athletes are beneficiaries of public funding and have some obligation to report in this mixed funded environment 

[scribe 1,835]

License student athletes and require them to report endorsements and gifts as long as they are beneficiaries of public funding. They can collect as much money as they wish. And none of the deals can require them to render services to a publicly funded entity. All of the total dollars a program is spending becomes public record. This makes it easier to identify monopolies that hurt consumers due to a non competitive atmosphere. Fewer programs is bad for athletes.

[gowrestle 689]

Not good. 

[IronChef 1,097]

Schools are not giving anyone NIL money. It doesn't come out of their budget.

[BerniePragle 382]

This may become analogous to the "dark money" so prevalent in and around Washington.  US Representatives have a salary <$200K, yet after a few years become worth 10s of millions.  I have long advocated that all our elected officials wear patches announcing their "sponsers", kinda like NASCAR or F1.  The major problem there though is we have a "rooster in charge of the henhouse situation".  That never works.
Maybe we need patches on singlets announcing "sponsors", whether individual, corporate, or university (scholarship).  At least then we'd know.
Ultimately, we need two things, which are in short supply anymore... accountability and integrity.  Lacking them, we need enforceable rules and consequences.  Just like Kindergarten.
 

[jp157 513]

6 hours ago, wrestlingphish said:

All of these things were already happening before NIL so trying to blame NIL for these outcomes is hilarious.

No one is.. everyone is saying that it’ll make it worse. Lack of competitive depth is not a good thing.. at all. Especially for sports like wrestling