What is the solution to NIL and Poaching?

[Swayz 160]

Ethics.  But we have programs that are win at all cost cut-throat.    From the top all the way to the bottom the expectancies are way screwy.     We have elite programs that don't need to do suspect bs,  but are.  We have teams that could be better but are old school with everyone must come out of high school and we train them from start to finish.  Then we also have programs that invest in 1 guy on the recruiting trail so much that when that doesn't pan out,  the numbers are hideous and you are left with a rag-tag group.   At least in DI  we have teams with full rosters.  We have a lot of coaches at other divisions not being held accountable for crap numbers.  

[Idaho 1,344]

Interesting that from an NCAA football perspective, Nick Saban and Kiffin  recently said that the NIL is not sustainable. 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-coach-nick-saban-warns-nil-model-in-college-football-is-unsustainable-will-lead-to-buying-players/

[1032004 1,452]

16 hours ago, TheHeel said:

I know about some. They can be paid for having a photo on a flier. 

RTC’s are paying current athletes to have a photo on a flyer?

[TBar1977 4,532]

4 hours ago, Idaho said:

Interesting that from an NCAA football perspective, Nick Saban and Kiffin  recently said that the NIL is not sustainable. 

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-coach-nick-saban-warns-nil-model-in-college-football-is-unsustainable-will-lead-to-buying-players/

Agree with Saban and Kiffin, and for a variety of reasons.  

[Idaho 1,344]

35 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Agree with Saban and Kiffin, and for a variety of reasons.  

Yep.... they see the whole picture and the sustainability of the NIL. Saban said it nicely.... it's basically buying a player and a team. Interesting it comes from Saban who probably would have an upperhand with their resources. 

[boconnell 1,624]

33 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Yep.... they see the whole picture and the sustainability of the NIL. Saban said it nicely.... it's basically buying a player and a team. Interesting it comes from Saban who probably would have an upperhand with their resources. 

Saban doesn't see the whole picture.  He sees that he dominated recruiting for the last decade before NIL.  Then Texas A&M used NIL money to crush Alabama in 2022 recruiting.  That's what Saban sees.  It is self interest pure and simple.  If he though NIL increased his chances of winning he'd be all for it.  

[TheHeel 69]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

RTC’s are paying current athletes to have a photo on a flyer?

An RTC is a separate entity from the university, athletic department and wrestling program. They are free to pay who they want for whatever they want as much as they want. If an RTC were to sign an NIL deal with a wrestler, the RTC and the wrestler would have to agree on the terms of the deal. As NIL says (name, image, likeness), using them on a flier to market their business is 100% in bounds. Yes, this is happening. No, its not a bad thing. It is working as designed. 

 

https://nypost.com/2021/07/20/alabama-qb-is-making-ungodly-amounts-from-nil-deals/

Edited April 15 by TheHeel

[TheHeel 69]

15 hours ago, Swayz said:

Ethics.  But we have programs that are win at all cost cut-throat.    From the top all the way to the bottom the expectancies are way screwy.     We have elite programs that don't need to do suspect bs,  but are.  We have teams that could be better but are old school with everyone must come out of high school and we train them from start to finish.  Then we also have programs that invest in 1 guy on the recruiting trail so much that when that doesn't pan out,  the numbers are hideous and you are left with a rag-tag group.   At least in DI  we have teams with full rosters.  We have a lot of coaches at other divisions not being held accountable for crap numbers.  

So because you either don't want athletes to get paid or you don't understand how the rule works, you decide to declare it unethical? Elite programs doing suspect bs? Operating inside the rules is now suspect? NIL deals are not suspect and they are not unethical, get off of your fake high horse. This is the next era of collegiate sports. Adapt or die. 

[1032004 1,452]

7 hours ago, TheHeel said:

An RTC is a separate entity from the university, athletic department and wrestling program. They are free to pay who they want for whatever they want as much as they want. If an RTC were to sign an NIL deal with a wrestler, the RTC and the wrestler would have to agree on the terms of the deal. As NIL says (name, image, likeness), using them on a flier to market their business is 100% in bounds. Yes, this is happening. No, its not a bad thing. It is working as designed. 

 

https://nypost.com/2021/07/20/alabama-qb-is-making-ungodly-amounts-from-nil-deals/

I still feel like if there was no issue with guys having NIL deals with RTC’s, that the public would know about them.  Again I think this does go back to one way to help regulate NIL would be to make all deals public, and stiff penalties if you fail to do so.

Edited April 16 by 1032004

[gimpeltf 2,069]

44 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I still feel like if there was no issue with guys having NIL deals with RTC’s, that the public would know about them.  Again I think this does go back to one way to help regulate NIL would be to make all deals public, and stiff penalties if you fail to do so.

Who do you penalize? The NCAA has only limited control over the RTCs, if at all. RTCs are USAW entities.

[Idaho 1,344]

9 hours ago, boconnell said:

Saban doesn't see the whole picture.  He sees that he dominated recruiting for the last decade before NIL.  Then Texas A&M used NIL money to crush Alabama in 2022 recruiting.  That's what Saban sees.  It is self interest pure and simple.  If he though NIL increased his chances of winning he'd be all for it.  

Crush? haha... ahead yes...crush no. 

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

Edited April 16 by Idaho

[1032004 1,452]

7 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

Who do you penalize? The NCAA has only limited control over the RTCs, if at all. RTCs are USAW entities.

I wasn’t referring only to RTC’s.  It would have to be the athletes and schools to get penalized, but not exactly sure what that penalty should be.   

[boconnell 1,624]

17 hours ago, Idaho said:

Crush? haha... ahead yes...crush no. 

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

Eight to three in 5 star recruits.  The overall number might be close but the high end talent isn't.  And most of that disparity on the line where Alabama is used to dominating.  A&M went out a bought a recruiting class that would have been Alabama's without the NIL.  That's why Saban is speaking out.  It has nothing to do with the health of the sport or anything else.  The new rules make it harder for him to win.  

[jp157 514]

On 4/15/2022 at 2:01 PM, TheHeel said:

So because you either don't want athletes to get paid or you don't understand how the rule works, you decide to declare it unethical? Elite programs doing suspect bs? Operating inside the rules is now suspect? NIL deals are not suspect and they are not unethical, get off of your fake high horse. This is the next era of collegiate sports. Adapt or die. 

The amount of people claiming certain behavior isn’t happening is getting amusing 

[ionel 2,537]

1 hour ago, jp157 said:

The amount of people claiming certain behavior isn’t happening is getting amusing 

And what some, especially one, don't get is its been happening for 10 to 15+ years its just that now there are more options so can be more like a shell game.

[gimpeltf 2,069]

13 hours ago, 1032004 said:

I wasn’t referring only to RTC’s.  It would have to be the athletes and schools to get penalized, but not exactly sure what that penalty should be.   

But that's my point. How do you penalize either? NIL's are now apparently legal. And they have nothing to do with the schools.

Of course, if it were found out that the schools/boosters were enticing kids to come to a school by giving NILs that could be a problem. But if you can't prove a nexus...

[jp157 514]

25 minutes ago, ionel said:

And what some, especially one, don't get is its been happening for 10 to 15+ years its just that now there are more options so can be more like a shell game.

I can deal with genuine ignorance. The people who are claiming their school is innocent or that everyone saying something isn’t healthy for the sport is just haters.. is more irritating 

[1032004 1,452]

1 hour ago, gimpeltf said:

But that's my point. How do you penalize either? NIL's are now apparently legal. And they have nothing to do with the schools.

Of course, if it were found out that the schools/boosters were enticing kids to come to a school by giving NILs that could be a problem. But if you can't prove a nexus...

I’m saying I agree with the suggestion that all NIL deals should be public.  So you should definitely be able to penalize the athlete at least.  I guess you’re right though that the schools supposedly aren’t involved so maybe you can’t penalize them though.

[Idaho 1,344]

15 hours ago, boconnell said:

Eight to three in 5 star recruits.  The overall number might be close but the high end talent isn't.  And most of that disparity on the line where Alabama is used to dominating.  A&M went out a bought a recruiting class that would have been Alabama's without the NIL.  That's why Saban is speaking out.  It has nothing to do with the health of the sport or anything else.  The new rules make it harder for him to win.  

one recruiting class where Alabama finished 2nd isn't going to hurt anything and I actually despise Alabama football. Let's ee if TAM has the sustainability to keep this up year in and  year out like Alabama does then we will talk. "Crushed" that's funny. 

[Idaho 1,344]

On 4/15/2022 at 1:01 PM, TheHeel said:

So because you either don't want athletes to get paid or you don't understand how the rule works, you decide to declare it unethical? Elite programs doing suspect bs? Operating inside the rules is now suspect? NIL deals are not suspect and they are not unethical, get off of your fake high horse. This is the next era of collegiate sports. Adapt or die. 

So I assume you mean that any teams that don't have the donors to sustain NIL should just die. Is that correct? Do you not think that those teams are already trying to get donors even pre-NIL? You are okay with half of the D1 teams not being able to adapt although they would like to....then cut the program?  I'm assuming that's what you mean by "adapt or die" - no oversight - no competitive balance - just....die. 

[TheHeel 69]

3 hours ago, Idaho said:

So I assume you mean that any teams that don't have the donors to sustain NIL should just die. Is that correct? Do you not think that those teams are already trying to get donors even pre-NIL? You are okay with half of the D1 teams not being able to adapt although they would like to....then cut the program?  I'm assuming that's what you mean by "adapt or die" - no oversight - no competitive balance - just....die. 

you are ridiculous. you know that already, though. what % of athletes do you think will get an NIL in wrestling? LOL go read a book. You have some catching up to do. 

[TheHeel 69]

On 4/15/2022 at 7:15 PM, 1032004 said:

I still feel like if there was no issue with guys having NIL deals with RTC’s, that the public would know about them.  Again I think this does go back to one way to help regulate NIL would be to make all deals public, and stiff penalties if you fail to do so.

private contracts are not going to be compelled to be public. ever. just sayin

[1032004 1,452]

8 hours ago, TheHeel said:

private contracts are not going to be compelled to be public. ever. just sayin

The details at least being reported to the school/NCAA would probably be sufficient.

[boconnell 1,624]

12 hours ago, Idaho said:

one recruiting class where Alabama finished 2nd isn't going to hurt anything and I actually despise Alabama football. Let's ee if TAM has the sustainability to keep this up year in and  year out like Alabama does then we will talk. "Crushed" that's funny. 

I'm not talking about who is better or who will win or who will sustain.  I could care less who wins SEC football.  I brought it up in this conversation only because Texas A&M very obviously used huge NIL money to buy the best recruiting class in the country (a thing they wouldn't come close to doing without NIL).  This is what prompts Saban's comments.  Saban isn't speaking for the good of the game.  He's speaking as a guy who just had a bunch of recruits bought out from under him.  So using his comments as some kind of discourse on the health of college sports is a huge stretch.  

Edited April 18 by boconnell

[TheHeel 69]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

The details at least being reported to the school/NCAA would probably be sufficient.

but to what end?