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NCAA Champs at WTT

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Does Nickal-as-wrestler tech Amine?

I think he does.


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More often than not I'd guess.
Dude was a talent.

Pico - MMA
Nickal- MMA
Gable- Acting

Have left some good sized holes.
(Nickal- wouldve been a great fit at 92kg after Cox quits)

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20 hours ago, spladle08 said:

@nhs67 just watched him  and agreed, he could really be something at 97kg.
How big is he currently? Can't be over 220 right?

One of the HS tournaments he wrestled on Track listed his weigh in weight at 226 lbs.  Track quite often puts the actual weigh in weights up on their site.  I think he beat Kolby Franklin in the finals at that tourney.

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18 hours ago, nhs67 said:

My tiers are designed so as that a grappler can sensibly be in a match and defeat or lose to someone on any typical given day.

Nobody is touching DT or Yazdani.  Ergo nobody is Tier 2.

Granted he got kicked in the head, but DT was in serious trouble against Kurugliev in the 2018 World semis.

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1 minute ago, ShakaAloha said:

Granted he got kicked in the head, but DT was in serious trouble against Kurugliev in the 2018 World semis.

I will admit that if you are able to render him unconscious, you stand a better chance at beating him than if you wrestle a good, clean match.

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16 hours ago, ShakaAloha said:

Granted he got kicked in the head, but DT was in serious trouble against Kurugliev in the 2018 World semis.

I think that had more to do with wrestling the gold medal match off the scales and the cumulative effect of a huge bracket grind. Didn't DT still take it to Kurgliev in the second period and break him with about :15 left?

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8 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

I think that had more to do with wrestling the gold medal match off the scales and the cumulative effect of a huge bracket grind. Didn't DT still take it to Kurgliev in the second period and break him with about :15 left?

Yep.

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3 hours ago, bnwtwg said:

I think that had more to do with wrestling the gold medal match off the scales and the cumulative effect of a huge bracket grind. Didn't DT still take it to Kurgliev in the second period and break him with about :15 left?

I agree with everything you posted above.

Do you think Kurugliev gave DT a competitive match (in the 2018 World semis)?

Do you have Kurugliev in Tier 2 or 3?

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26 minutes ago, ShakaAloha said:

I agree with everything you posted above.

Do you think Kurugliev gave DT a competitive match (in the 2018 World semis)?

Do you have Kurugliev in Tier 2 or 3?

I have in clearly in Tier 3 because everything went right for him and wrong for DT and he still lost.  I would take DT 10 out of 10 times, because that same scenario would not repeat itself.  The gap wouldn't just widen, DT would make a statement out of it.  To be within one tier of someone, to me, means that you can beat him.  I don't think Kurugliev can beat DT.

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10 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I have in clearly in Tier 3 because everything went right for him and wrong for DT and he still lost.  I would take DT 10 out of 10 times, because that same scenario would not repeat itself.  The gap wouldn't just widen, DT would make a statement out of it.  To be within one tier of someone, to me, means that you can beat him.  I don't think Kurugliev can beat DT.

Ok fair enough.  What tier would you put Burroughs in if he bumped up to 86?

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I'd love it honestly.
I think Zare has a better style for international....
But if he (Gable) proved me wrong and came out and beat everyone again (I'd be super surprised)....
I'd call him the greatest heavyweight talent for the rest of time....

Given my skepticism clearly I favor riding off as an Olympic Champion who "went out on top" but I have no say in what that guy does.

#Exciting

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On 4/15/2022 at 3:30 PM, nhs67 said:

Tier 2 would no longer be empty, if he went 86 KG.

I think it would be.  Dake handled him pretty good last year, and Dake couldn't make it at 86.

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On 4/13/2022 at 10:59 AM, nhs67 said:

I fully believe he is in that fourth tier on the world level.

Tier 1 - Yazadni, DT

Tier 2 - EMPTY

Tier 3 - Naifonov, Kurugliev, 3 or 4 other Russians

Tier 4 - Valencia, Amine, 3 or 4 other Russians, Punia, Couple of Turks, Kazahk and Uzbek gent, Chinese guy?

Tier 5 - A slew of US guys here.  Brooks, Hidlay, Hall, Martin.  Could be argued to move a few up to Tier 4.

The thing with Valencia is if he is just a small amount better than you on that day, he is going to look leaps and bounds better. 

Styles make matchups, though, and I think Amine's grinder style lends him to be able to beat a Ramazonov or a Rasulov where Valencia is going to struggle to open them up.

nhs…love your posts but if you leave tier 2 empty doesn’t that move up the others…I suppose you are just saying the tier 3 guys arent just behing yaz/dt but…

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2 minutes ago, CJE64 said:

nhs…love your posts but if you leave tier 2 empty doesn’t that move up the others…I suppose you are just saying the tier 3 guys arent just behing yaz/dt but…

Tier three doesn't get to move up just because tier two is empty. It's a void...  : )

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On 4/13/2022 at 2:58 PM, nhs67 said:

57 - IF Lee competes, I do not think anybody is close to him.  I just don't.  I think Arujau after Lee, if he doesn't stick around through 2028.

61 - Fix and a few of the 57 guys, as you said.  I don't see who else through 2028 will challenge Fix.  It is probably his until he decides otherwise, much like Dake/JB at 79.

65 - I am still hoping Fix goes up here for 2024.  He will be a factor, if so.  That said, I have to go with Lee, Johnny D, and Oliver in 2024.  I also hope Oliver doesn't try to cut and tries 74kg.  That is me, though.  As far as up and comers?  Bartlett and Henson for guys coming up?

70 - Bunch of Tweeners, however I think we see many of the 70 guys head to 74 for 2024.  After that, we still have a lot of youth here.  Pantaleo could take it and run with it for a few years, but there is a LOT of talent in this range.  In the same room as him we have Lewan and Lamer already.

74 - Ultra talented guys around 20 years old from 70 and 74 will flock here for 2024 OTT (or try to).  We have a lot of experience here, too, even after Dake/JB.  The one I don't know about is Sasso.  Him and Lee have had epic battles at 70.  Lee went up to 157 with the purpose to go 74 come trials.  Sasso is far too large for 65.  Teemer.  Carr.  O'Toole.  Griffith.  That is the youth.  Don't forget that Nolf isn't old, either.  He could be around for 2028, still.

79 - Same thing.  Dake/JB until they die.  Ringer is there, but I don't see him or IMar outlasting Dake/JB at this point.  That said, Star is there.  I believe Hidlay intends to stay at 79, rather than drop to 74.  He could be a player and Marstellar looks excellent as well.  Starocci will beat both of them, though, when the time comes.

86 - I think the guy is going to be Brooks very soon.  DT will be done after 2024.  That said, I still want Zahid to head to Mehico.  Brooks will hold the spot for awhile.

92 - You need to rewatch Moore-Hidlay.  Hidlay is right there and, iirc is undefeated against Jackson.  If Hidlay chooses to stay at 92, it will be him I think.  That is IF J'den hangs it up after 2024.

97 - I don't see anyone through our college or down to HS ranks that is taking it from Cap'n.  Cox included.

125 - I think Parris ends up being the man here.  Kerk is a nightmare matchup for him, but tends to drop matches to other people.  After 2024 we come into a realm where we should still be very good internationally.  No Gable?  No problem.  Zare will be a problem, but we will still have medal threats for the foreseeable future.  I am still in the camp that I hope Feldman goes 97kg to take over after Snyder hangs them up.  He has too small a frame for 125 internationally (I will believe this until proven wrong).

I think this is surianos year…he was on fire two years ago…just spent a full year at 125…and i am a nys guy and love vito but he is my frontrunner

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4 hours ago, nhs67 said:

DT legit won on criteria against him.

DT was up 4-0 with under a minute left, and just stalled out the rest of the match.  He gave up 4 step-out pts. in the last 50 seconds.

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2 hours ago, KCMO2 said:

DT was up 4-0 with under a minute left, and just stalled out the rest of the match.  He gave up 4 step-out pts. in the last 50 seconds.

So you are saying JB wore him out. Sounds like if the match were 30 seconds longer, he would have ragdolled him.

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10 hours ago, CJE64 said:

I think this is surianos year…he was on fire two years ago…just spent a full year at 125…and i am a nys guy and love vito but he is my frontrunner

Nicky Skeletor has never been on fire at 57 KG.  He did exceptional at 57 +2 KG two years ago.

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10 hours ago, CJE64 said:

nhs…love your posts but if you leave tier 2 empty doesn’t that move up the others…I suppose you are just saying the tier 3 guys arent just behing yaz/dt but…

Nah.  My tiers can be empty.

My thinking is that if someone can beat someone (without a lucky pin, throw, etc) then they should be within a tier of them.  I don't think anyone can beat DT/Yazdani right now - that wrestles 86 KG typically.  Ergo Tier 2 should be empty.

What's amazing is that Russia had a slew of guys in the Tier 4 area, USA has a slew of guys in the Tier 4/5, and only a handful of countries have even one guy in the 4/5 range.  We have a lot of depth there. It just doesn't seem that way.

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9 hours ago, KCMO2 said:

DT was up 4-0 with under a minute left, and just stalled out the rest of the match.  He gave up 4 step-out pts. in the last 50 seconds.

Matches are six minutes yeah? See below...

7 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

So you are saying JB wore him out. Sounds like if the match were 30 seconds longer, he would have ragdolled him.

If the mat were to hold true, and it always does 50% of the time, then 13 seconds is all that would have been needed for JB to have curbstomped him.

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12 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

So you are saying JB wore him out. Sounds like if the match were 30 seconds longer, he would have ragdolled him.

Watch the match and tell me that DT was worn out.  He was just as fresh as JB. He just stalled out the last 50 seconds to get the win.

 

Edited by KCMO2

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1 minute ago, KCMO2 said:

Watch the match and tell me that DT was worn out.  He was obviously stalling our the last 50 seconds.

 

Still.  6 minutes were 'wrestled' and the final was 4-4.

Why are you refuting the actual result?

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