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TwoPointTakeDown

Cutting weight... should we finally stop this practice?

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2 minutes ago, TwoPointTakeDown said:

I'm sorry. Instead of 'comment' I should have said 'aesthetic opinions that bring nothing to the discussion'.

Everyone looking for their dopamine today. Glad I could help. Bullies gonna bull. 

ok jimmy c

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7 hours ago, TwoPointTakeDown said:

Parents are an issue and should be dealt with. How is it that the idea of addressing the issue holistically is, itself, an issue? Why are we arguing about who's fault it is? Its everyone's fault. You for pushing back. Me for doing it so long ago. Regardless, everyone should be aware of it, educated about it, and disciplined if caught. Being caught could mean a variety of things. If official rules are broken then official punishment can be handed down. If caught or suspected by coaches, it needs to be addressed. The path of least resistance, on this matter, is literally putting kids in danger. Coaches overlook it because the kids fill spots in their line up, or they don't want to deal with parents. I'm sorry but that is BS and possibly actionable. One of a few sports that requires a weigh in, ADs should be keenly aware of the issue and work to implement measures to CYA, if for no other reason then it keeps them out of the spot light in bad way. 

I try not to be mean on purpose. Some feel as if I talk down in my posts and I honestly don't mean to. And I won't apologize for my use of  vocabulary. But to be honest, your opinion on how I am 'going about it' is worthless unless you give me more. Worthless to me, in the hopes of improving my communication skills to, perhaps, sway someone like you. And worthless for you to type because it makes you sound like a whiner. Are those your points tho, are you getting your dopamine hit from this response? If so, have at it. But you're not offering anything to help. So why offer your opinion at all? You come off like a low rent bully and I think you can do better. Chances are, probably not. Considering the multiple chances you've had to expound on your thoughts, but to no avail. 

Sigh. No. Bud.. your “big words” were not the problem. I’m not going to throw big words back at you to proves I can keep up with the college edjimicated then angrily block you like the jersey guy. Lol. 
Though.. I’m curious what words you think were so loquacious we had trouble following… The implied arrogance is asinine. 

No, you haven’t been “mean”.. just.. preachy.

Additionally, I have stated things that very clearly align to what the guy you said “well said” to.. so it’s very clear your response is mostly condescension and butthurt I stated you’re grandstanding. 
 

Which directly leads to.. me asking.. what do you hope to accomplish here.. aside from grandstanding. Coaches on here either agree and don’t let their kids cut weight unless they’re willing to be super disciplined like Milkovich talked about.. which includes myself.. or they suck, and/or get left behind. 

Im actually personally super strict about kids not cutting. And I got that attitude because my coaches and mentors were too and they put that attitude into their coaching trees… 

I communicate very clearly with my school and parents too. In fact several teachers literally report to me if the kids are being idiots and doing stuff like spitting in cups because they know I’ll stop them… 


So no.. I’m not whining. I’m stating what you’re very clearly doing and asking what you hope to actually accomplish. And while we’re at it, you come across as super arrogant but are too soft to back it up since you’re calling me a bully…. For stating that you are grandstanding.. 

Intellectually softer than butter
 


 

 

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For the NCAAs, have a scale next to the mat and have the wrestlers weigh in at the table with their singlet, headgear, and shoes on before each match.  Miss weight, you forfeit, and the team is docked 3 team tournament points.  Make weight and wrestle.  There isn't much overhead on this.  No weight allowances.  No second chance weigh in.  

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On 4/25/2022 at 12:38 PM, TwoPointTakeDown said:

Just seems like a lot of energy dedicated to weight management that could be used to get better at wrestling. 

Agreed. Just pointing out that if you really want to cut big and gain some perceived advantage, there's always a way. 

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On 4/27/2022 at 8:19 AM, GockeS said:

lol... says the person lobbing from the cinnabon gallery

I don’t think he’s Jimmy. Jimmy wouldn’t be claiming we’re “bullying” and “whining” when we disagree with him lol

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1 hour ago, jp157 said:

I don’t think he’s Jimmy. Jimmy wouldn’t be claiming we’re “bullying” and “whining” when we disagree with him lol

you could be right

the timing of his arrival and jimmy's 'departure' makes me suspect 

Edited by GockeS

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1 hour ago, GockeS said:

you could be right

the timing of his arrival and jimmy's 'departure' makes me suspect 

He sounds very similar to some dude on sherdog who proposed “rule changes” and got butthurt when a person disagreed with him and accused them of “bullying him” the same way. He had the same wannabe aggressive intellectual but not able to take it when people were aggressive back attitude as well.. he kinda pulled out when my buddy called him out

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4 hours ago, GockeS said:

you could be right

the timing of his arrival and jimmy's 'departure' makes me suspect 

I don’t think he is Jimmy, his posts are too long. I do think TheHeel is though.  But yes, people don’t usually join college wrestling message boards in April.

On the topic, I don’t think matside weighins are the answer.  People will still cut weight and if anything it could be worse if something bad happens.  Maybe I’m naive but other than a small minority I don’t feel like its that bad currently, particularly if there are certifications, hydration testing, descent plans, etc.

Thought this recent tweet was relevant.  I believe Herring is in 8th grade.  Although to be fair we don’t know if he was using the sauna specifically to lose weight.

 

 

 

Edited by 1032004

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7 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I don’t think he is Jimmy, his posts are too long. I do think TheHeel is though.  But yes, people don’t usually join college wrestling message boards in April.

On the topic, I don’t think matside weighins are the answer.  People will still cut weight and if anything it could be worse if something bad happens.  Maybe I’m naive but other than a small minority I don’t feel like its that bad currently, particularly if there are certifications, hydration testing, descent plans, etc.

Thought this recent tweet was relevant.  I believe Herring is in 8th grade.  Although to be fair we don’t know if he was using the sauna specifically to lose weight.

 

 

 

I do t know what state he’s from but Michigan and Ohio still allow old school stuff like weigh outs but I think the sauna rule is pretty strict. 
 

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On 4/27/2022 at 7:00 PM, jp157 said:

Sigh. No. Bud.. your “big words” were not the problem. I’m not going to throw big words back at you to proves I can keep up with the college edjimicated then angrily block you like the jersey guy. Lol. 
Though.. I’m curious what words you think were so loquacious we had trouble following… The implied arrogance is asinine. 

No, you haven’t been “mean”.. just.. preachy.

Additionally, I have stated things that very clearly align to what the guy you said “well said” to.. so it’s very clear your response is mostly condescension and butthurt I stated you’re grandstanding. 
 

Which directly leads to.. me asking.. what do you hope to accomplish here.. aside from grandstanding. Coaches on here either agree and don’t let their kids cut weight unless they’re willing to be super disciplined like Milkovich talked about.. which includes myself.. or they suck, and/or get left behind. 

Im actually personally super strict about kids not cutting. And I got that attitude because my coaches and mentors were too and they put that attitude into their coaching trees… 

I communicate very clearly with my school and parents too. In fact several teachers literally report to me if the kids are being idiots and doing stuff like spitting in cups because they know I’ll stop them… 


So no.. I’m not whining. I’m stating what you’re very clearly doing and asking what you hope to actually accomplish. And while we’re at it, you come across as super arrogant but are too soft to back it up since you’re calling me a bully…. For stating that you are grandstanding.. 

Intellectually softer than butter
 


 

 

I have been out of the day-to-day operations of college and high school wrestling for a few years. My goal was to see if cutting weight was as big of an issue as when I was more involved. I appreciate your feedback now that you've given it. I don't mean to come off that way. But the push back that I've heard on this issue is upsetting. You have brought up good points and I appreciate THAT too. That we agree on this issue, a rather important one in the sport, makes me curious why you were so keen to discredit me as grandstanding? As if they way I brought up the point was argument against the point itself. Plenty of trolls come right out and make their intentions clear that they don't care about moving a conversation forward. You don't seem like that kind of poster. Just that we could've gotten to this point days ago if you had just been upfront. 

How are my goals on this matter in question at all? Eliminate it as a practice, altogether. Educate parents and coaches. Hold our sport accountable. How was that unclear?

And yes, you are a bully for trying to throw shade with no explanation. I'm sorry if that offends you. People get offended when they're called out for inappropriate actions. Don't get me started on this phenomenon. Trying to shut someone down because you don't like their presentation is bullying. Trying to call someone weak for calling you out on your BS is a typical response of a bully. Congrats you're a cliché. 

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I’m in the camp of mat side weigh ins.  Duals and before each tournament match.  Etc. there are methods to make this work.  Perhaps an allowance for 2nd and third matches.   Will take some getting used to no doubt.  
 

How many more would people love this sport, or give it a try if the big-time weight cutting aspect was removed?  A lot more.  So many more would stick with it.  
 

(I didn’t have time to read this thread in full but did notice more people seeming to warm to the idea.  Awesome.)

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20 minutes ago, GockeS said:

i dont think mat side weigh ins is going to attract people

hell, kids are supposedly afraid to put on a singlet

It’s not supposedly. The deliberate obtuseness on this issue is getting to be absurd

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exactly... if they dont want to put a singlet on i mean really.. .do you think they are going to want to weigh in matside?

there is nothing obtuse about it

mat side weigh ins aren't going to attract non wrestlers to the sport

i dont deny that the myth/truth of weight cutting is pushing some away from the sport.. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, GockeS said:

its what they did 20 years ago

No I remember them changing the weight classes, but adding 8 pounds would just bump up every weight and get rid of 125.  I was trying to figure out the point was to get rid of 125.  It wouldn't change anything.  And again, even though I don't think that was his intentional point, but weight allowance beforehand does nothing.  Adding the pound per day at competitions does help, but changing a weight class ahead of time.  Kids will still just cut down to another weight class.  All that said, if you add 8 pounds, 125 becomes 133 and so on, so it does nothing.  I think it was more of a jab at getting rid of the lower weight class.

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47 minutes ago, Schuteandscore said:

No I remember them changing the weight classes, but adding 8 pounds would just bump up every weight and get rid of 125.  I was trying to figure out the point was to get rid of 125.  It wouldn't change anything.  And again, even though I don't think that was his intentional point, but weight allowance beforehand does nothing.  Adding the pound per day at competitions does help, but changing a weight class ahead of time.  Kids will still just cut down to another weight class.  All that said, if you add 8 pounds, 125 becomes 133 and so on, so it does nothing.  I think it was more of a jab at getting rid of the lower weight class.

thats what they did 

118 became 125 

etc...

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1 hour ago, Schuteandscore said:

No I remember them changing the weight classes, but adding 8 pounds would just bump up every weight and get rid of 125.  I was trying to figure out the point was to get rid of 125.  It wouldn't change anything.  And again, even though I don't think that was his intentional point, but weight allowance beforehand does nothing.  Adding the pound per day at competitions does help, but changing a weight class ahead of time.  Kids will still just cut down to another weight class.  All that said, if you add 8 pounds, 125 becomes 133 and so on, so it does nothing.  I think it was more of a jab at getting rid of the lower weight class.

Be honest with me here - do you think 125 pounders would like or dislike being able to be 130? They just need to make it a weight bump that 95% of people won't cut to get and that people will use to grow. That would be good for all involved and is a quick fix as to how to reduce the current amount of weight being cut. If a kid can fill out 130 and is still cutting the same amount, they were cutting too much to being with. 

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2 hours ago, GockeS said:

exactly... if they dont want to put a singlet on i mean really.. .do you think they are going to want to weigh in matside?

there is nothing obtuse about it

mat side weigh ins aren't going to attract non wrestlers to the sport

i dont deny that the myth/truth of weight cutting is pushing some away from the sport.. 

 

 

Not to mention with matside weighins it would also turn into a competition of who can make the lightest shoes.  Would you need to weigh in with knee pads, etc?  If not then that would just add time to the matches.

But as far as weight cutting pushing people away, I think the simple solution is don’t cut weight if you don’t want to.  But the reason people cut weight is because you can be more successful doing it.

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10 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Not to mention with matside weighins it would also turn into a competition of who can make the lightest shoes.  Would you need to weigh in with knee pads, etc?  If not then that would just add time to the matches.

But as far as weight cutting pushing people away, I think the simple solution is don’t cut weight if you don’t want to.  But the reason people cut weight is because you can be more successful doing it.

I think there is a lot of proof that moving up weights has as much or more competitive benefit than cutting weight does. 

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