Cutting weight... should we finally stop this practice?

[jp157 556]

7 hours ago, TwoPointTakeDown said:

What I have gathered from this message, is that you would like me to fall in line. Sorry, no. 

You pathetic little coward. For someone with pretensions of bring the “big word guy”.. actually reading and acknowledging what I said seems to be a little bit much for you. I said you should actually be doing useful things and that you aren’t going to accomplish anything by grandstanding too.

Your little attempt to make what I said “the man holding you down” honestly makes it very clear your are just grandstanding.

Whilst it is very obvious that you are most likely a just a volunteer helper or help out with youth stuff. If you actually want to be useful. Get a head coaching position and implement good practice. Or do the work to get on rules committees. 

Since we both know you just want to grandstand and act indigent.. and not actually do anything that requires real work. I’ll continue to actually enforce good practice on my team 

[TheHeel 71]

I'd like to see you two wrestle it out

[jp157 556]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:40 AM, jackwebster said:

I like it. A lot. Promotes healthy living. Neuters dehydration. Saves practice hours.  Shaves an hr + off arrival times.

Details though. You would need to have a national disinterested bureaucracy to maintain the random draw, keep track of the weights, and enforce the rules. Like the opc with messier data.

The national disinterested bureaucracy is the key part. If it’s only enforced on the state level, pretty much every coach on good terms with local refs will have plenty of warning

[jp157 556]

4 hours ago, TheHeel said:

I'd like to see you two wrestle it out

That would continue to let him be useless

[red blades 367]

I stopped cutting weight years ago.

[TwoPointTakeDown 21]

22 hours ago, TheHeel said:

Isn't that how society works now? The needs of the loudest few outweigh the needs of the majority?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing 122, 129, 136, 142, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184, 205, 285. Might be a good way to grow the sport. Add a weight.

The loud, maybe. I would argue not just because they're loud.  I like an odd number but maybe too much in between 84 and 205. So, maybe, add another one somewhere?

Edited May 10 by TwoPointTakeDown

[TwoPointTakeDown 21]

21 hours ago, ionel said:

What about the 105lbers and the 325lbers?  :(

Lets do it. Let the barrage of forfeits and pushing contests commence. 

[TwoPointTakeDown 21]

16 hours ago, TheHeel said:

I'd like to see you two wrestle it out

That would be hoot. 

[jp157 556]

34 minutes ago, TwoPointTakeDown said:

That would be hoot. 

What specific plans do you have to “finally stop” the practice of weight cutting?

Actual plans with specific steps. Whilst I know you are too lazy to put in the daily work. 
 

Though I’m still curious to hear your “logic” on how me specifically saying I actually do what you’re screeching at us to do like a nagging church mom… you know actually not letting kids cut weight, installing a culture of focusing on: improving technique, strength, and cardio.. 

is somehow.. “me telling you to fall into line”.. 

And are you that dude who got pissed off and rage quit on sherdog after my buddy didn’t automatically agree with your “rule suggestions”?

[ionel 2,739]

16 hours ago, TheHeel said:

I'd like to see you two wrestle it out

Let's be sure they make weight first.  ;)

[jp157 556]

32 minutes ago, ionel said:

Let's be sure they make weight first.  ;)

I like to wear sweats when I workout. I’m afraid I wouldn’t be allowed to warm up since I might be “cutting weight”

[TwoPointTakeDown 21]

31 minutes ago, jp157 said:

I like to wear sweats when I workout. I’m afraid I wouldn’t be allowed to warm up since I might be “cutting weight”

1 hour ago, jp157 said:

What specific plans do you have to “finally stop” the practice of weight cutting?

Actual plans with specific steps. Whilst I know you are too lazy to put in the daily work. 
 

Though I’m still curious to hear your “logic” on how me specifically saying I actually do what you’re screeching at us to do like a nagging church mom… you know actually not letting kids cut weight, installing a culture of focusing on: improving technique, strength, and cardio.. 

is somehow.. “me telling you to fall into line”.. 

And are you that dude who got pissed off and rage quit on sherdog after my buddy didn’t automatically agree with your “rule suggestions”?

I don't understand. Do you want to know my opinion? Because I've stated it several times. The rules in place are and have helped. But they aren't fool proof. You want me to give you a perfect solution or to shut up? That's what it seems like. In pervious posts I have suggested we become more vigilant as a culture. Parents and coaches. I'm sorry if that's insulting to an already vigilant coach, like yourself. It wasn't intended to be. But if you are getting so upset over a perceived slight, should you be leading kids/athletes? Its a question that needs to be asked.

It seems as if you're doing the classic rubber/glue(muddy the waters) tactic of accusing the opponent of everything you do or plan to do. Then you seem reasonable by comparison. Name calling and accusations are the hallmark of rage. 

You will keep responding. So people will keep reading and going back to see what it is we are arguing about. So in that respect you are driving traffic to the issue. Thank you. 

Keep pushing the technique, cardio, and strength over cutting. You're doing good work. 

[GockeS 549]

no rules are fool proof

see the constitution

 

[jackwebster 334]

23 hours ago, jp157 said:

The national disinterested bureaucracy is the key part. If it’s only enforced on the state level, pretty much every coach on good terms with local refs will have plenty of warning

Bet. Any time I have been subject to "random" drug tests, they weren't exactly random.

I have had "random" drug tests as a part of a sobriety program (I'm an alcoholic). But, it didn't take very long to figure out the pattern. (Maybe, it was just the counseling center where I went. IDK.).

In school, we had some guys on the team who partied periodically (meth). They swore that "they" -- whoever was doing the drug test -- would only call early in the morning on certain days of the week. If you didn't answer, "they" went to the next person. I was skeptical; but when my number came up, the phone rang bright-n-early on a Tuesday, and I had to go in. I forget exactly, but I think the folks who didn't answer had to test at some point. It wasn't the same day though. These guys' particular drug of choice didn't stay in their systems long enough to show up.

Re this weight monitoring proposal: I think it would be most effective if the random tests were administered waay more often than the drug tests, like every week for five rostered guys.

 

[jp157 556]

5 hours ago, TwoPointTakeDown said:

I don't understand. Do you want to know my opinion? Because I've stated it several times. The rules in place are and have helped. But they aren't fool proof. You want me to give you a perfect solution or to shut up? That's what it seems like. In pervious posts I have suggested we become more vigilant as a culture. Parents and coaches. I'm sorry if that's insulting to an already vigilant coach, like yourself. It wasn't intended to be. But if you are getting so upset over a perceived slight, should you be leading kids/athletes? Its a question that needs to be asked.

It seems as if you're doing the classic rubber/glue(muddy the waters) tactic of accusing the opponent of everything you do or plan to do. Then you seem reasonable by comparison. Name calling and accusations are the hallmark of rage. 

You will keep responding. So people will keep reading and going back to see what it is we are arguing about. So in that respect you are driving traffic to the issue. Thank you. 

Keep pushing the technique, cardio, and strength over cutting. You're doing good work. 

Perceived? You literally asked if you used too big of words.. and called me “whiner” because I stated you are grandstanding.. you started the insults. Despite the fact I clearly stated I personally enact good practice on my team… Don’t try to play pop psychologist. You attempted to be condescending and holier than thou. There was no muddying the waters. 
 

We both know any response that didn’t automatically both praise you and agree with you would be attacked as “trying to keep you down” or just not being “enlightened”.

So let’s clearly summarize.. for the people you’re hoping to convince 

- You have no plan, no proposed rule changes

- You aren’t in charge of any coaching or officiating 

- Anyone who doesn’t agree with you is automatically a bully or trying to “keep you in your place” and you attempt condescension and victimhood rather than discussion.

Here I’ll give you what you want.. “oh boy TS, you is soooo virtuous and smart, and like, you should like, make a hashtag, and make sure everyone knows you is totes progressive”

Yes. I know I’m doing good work. Now go actually be useful and do real work yourself :)

 

 

 

 

 

[jp157 556]

57 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Bet. Any time I have been subject to "random" drug tests, they weren't exactly random.

I have had "random" drug tests as a part of a sobriety program (I'm an alcoholic). But, it didn't take very long to figure out the pattern. (Maybe, it was just the counseling center where I went. IDK.).

In school, we had some guys on the team who partied periodically (meth). They swore that "they" -- whoever was doing the drug test -- would only call early in the morning on certain days of the week. If you didn't answer, "they" went to the next person. I was skeptical; but when my number came up, the phone rang bright-n-early on a Tuesday, and I had to go in. I forget exactly, but I think the folks who didn't answer had to test at some point. It wasn't the same day though. These guys' particular drug of choice didn't stay in their systems long enough to show up.

Re this weight monitoring proposal: I think it would be most effective if the random tests were administered waay more often than the drug tests, like every week for five rostered guys.

 

Not a single drug test on my college team was random whatsoever 

[jackwebster 334]

4 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Not a single drug test on my college team was random whatsoever 

Sorta figured it wasn't just my school.

[jp157 556]

3 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Sorta figured it wasn't just my school.

Me and a couple of my teammates who came in together had to fight not to laugh out asses off when our coach admitted it. Though mysteriously. The top recruit who popped half a dozen times wasn’t cut or suspended.. despite the “message” the coach preached.. until that kid starting costing team points 

[jackwebster 334]

17 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Me and a couple of my teammates who came in together had to fight not to laugh out asses off when our coach admitted it. Though mysteriously. The top recruit who popped half a dozen times wasn’t cut or suspended.. despite the “message” the coach preached.. until that kid starting costing team points 

Similar sorts of shenanigans used to go on with the pinch and hydration tests. I have no first hand knowledge, but I have heard that things are more legit now. Do you know if gaming the opc is still common?

Edited May 10 by jackwebster

[jp157 556]

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

Similar sorts of shenanigans used to go on with the pinch and hydration tests. I have no first hand knowledge, but I have heard that things are more legit now. Do you know if gaming the opc is still common?

Opc? Or do you mean otc

[TheHeel 71]

9 hours ago, ionel said:

Let's be sure they make weight first.  ;)

I am guessing JP is a former 157 pounder. 2pointTakedown sounds like hes not too worried about it, so I would guess he was at least a 184. What weight do you propose they wrestle at? I need specifics. An action plan. And don't be using any of those big words with me either. 

[TheHeel 71]

10 hours ago, TwoPointTakeDown said:

The loud, maybe. I would argue not just because they're loud.  I like an odd number but maybe too much in between 84 and 205. So, maybe, add another one somewhere?

Odd number of weights is the way to go. There is no reason not to have more weight classes. More opportunities for the sport is good for everyone. 

[TheHeel 71]

22 hours ago, jp157 said:

That would continue to let him be useless

I want to see it. I am sure there are others. 

[ionel 2,739]

27 minutes ago, TheHeel said:

I am guessing JP is a former 157 pounder. 2pointTakedown sounds like hes not too worried about it, so I would guess he was at least a 184. What weight do you propose they wrestle at? I need specifics. An action plan. And don't be using any of those big words with me either. 

I say each have to weigh in at one weight class above their senior year high school weight class.  If they were prolific weight cutters in high school its probably gonna hurt.  :)

Ok maybe 2 wt classes above HS senior year but that's it.  

Edited May 11 by ionel

[gimpeltf 2,085]

1 hour ago, jackwebster said:

Similar sorts of shenanigans used to go on with the pinch and hydration tests. I have no first hand knowledge, but I have heard that things are more legit now. Do you know if gaming the opc is still common?

 

34 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Opc? Or do you mean otc

OPC. Optimal Performance Calculator on Track.