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Cutting weight... should we finally stop this practice?

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2 hours ago, jackwebster said:

Similar sorts of shenanigans used to go on with the pinch and hydration tests. I have no first hand knowledge, but I have heard that things are more legit now. Do you know if gaming the opc is still common?

Oh yeah some still do. Not sure how common 

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54 minutes ago, TheHeel said:

I want to see it. I am sure there are others. 

You live up to your user tag. I’ll give you that. Though I won’t be seeing 157 any time soon 

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11 minutes ago, TheHeel said:

Terrible tragedy out of Kansas this week:

 

https://www.kktv.com/2022/07/06/teen-wrestler-dies-apparent-heatstroke-during-workout-school-says/?outputType=amp

 

Wearing sweatsuit in summer to cut.   There is some blame to go around here.  

Why would Damian Mendez going to such extreme lengths in July? The article did not say he had a summer tournament. Otherwise, he'd be losing mostly waterweight, right? Either way, unless he had summer tourneys, he would not have to make weight for roughly four months. What am I missing?

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58 minutes ago, TheHeel said:

Terrible tragedy out of Kansas this week:

 

https://www.kktv.com/2022/07/06/teen-wrestler-dies-apparent-heatstroke-during-workout-school-says/?outputType=amp

 

Wearing sweatsuit in summer to cut.   There is some blame to go around here.  

This practice was supposed to have ended decades ago but when its 90/100f out, unbelievable!  :(

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2 hours ago, NJDan said:

Why would Damian Mendez going to such extreme lengths in July? The article did not say he had a summer tournament. Otherwise, he'd be losing mostly waterweight, right? Either way, unless he had summer tourneys, he would not have to make weight for roughly four months. What am I missing?

Fargo.... which is still 8 days out for weigh-ins -    101 degrees with high humidity and a heat advisory warning. NDSU commit as well. 

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4 hours ago, Mike Parrish said:

Mat side weighins before every match.

Nobody can hold a water cut the whole tournament.

Everyone wrestles at walking weight.

Yes.  1 million times yes.  So simple.  Take the extreme weight cutting aspect of the competition out of the mix.

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3 hours ago, nom said:

Yes.  1 million times yes.  So simple.  Take the extreme weight cutting aspect of the competition out of the mix.

I don't know if this is "enforcement," but how would you know? A kid shows up weighing 141 pounds. You don't know how he go that way, right. And what about a kid who runs 5 miles a day without rubber suit in addition to wrestling practice. Do you say he can't wrestle at 141 because the other kids only run sprints after practice. I am sure these are not new questions, but I don't see how you answer them. Saying "no rubber suits" is easy enough and perhaps enforceable. But what about everything else that wrestlers do and indeed that all serious athletes do to be in shape and minimize body fat.  

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7 hours ago, Idaho said:

Fargo.... which is still 8 days out for weigh-ins -    101 degrees with high humidity and a heat advisory warning. NDSU commit as well. 

Ah, thanks. Makes some sense-- tho a bad, tragic idea, of course. But isn't 8 days out still a long way out for wearing a rubber suit in that kind of weather.

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In my opinion it is a harder problem to solve than just changing rules that are already in place to try and stop this.  I think it needs to be changed at the cultural/behavioral level of the sport...earth shattering I know...but a super hard thing to do.  To many "old school" people left in the sport...I am not putting all the blame on them, but rather it is a hard thing to change when it may have worked for you as a coach and you are coaching a kid that you know will be very successful if he/she can just cut those last few pounds.   Versus, maybe trying to get to a point where the "norm" is you wrestle at your natural/healthy weight and figure out how to be successful there.  Easy concepts but extremely hard to do across the board.  I grew up in the era of rubber suits and sauna sweat sessions, and it is WAY better now than it was back then.  In the program I am involved in we DO NOT allow this on our watch.  We can't control what happens at home though obviously.  Just a tough thing to stop all together.  

My sympathies go out to that poor kids family...so sad!

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27 minutes ago, dman115 said:

In my opinion it is a harder problem to solve than just changing rules that are already in place to try and stop this.  I think it needs to be changed at the cultural/behavioral level of the sport...earth shattering I know...but a super hard thing to do.  To many "old school" people left in the sport...I am not putting all the blame on them, but rather it is a hard thing to change when it may have worked for you as a coach and you are coaching a kid that you know will be very successful if he/she can just cut those last few pounds.   Versus, maybe trying to get to a point where the "norm" is you wrestle at your natural/healthy weight and figure out how to be successful there.  Easy concepts but extremely hard to do across the board.  I grew up in the era of rubber suits and sauna sweat sessions, and it is WAY better now than it was back then.  In the program I am involved in we DO NOT allow this on our watch.  We can't control what happens at home though obviously.  Just a tough thing to stop all together.  

My sympathies go out to that poor kids family...so sad!

You're not going to get rid of cutting weight. The fact is cutting some weight is usually beneficial.  It's cutting a ton of weight that often isn't which we need to stop.   I'm not really sure the best way to do it though.

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

You're not going to get rid of cutting weight. The fact is cutting some weight is usually beneficial.  It's cutting a ton of weight that often isn't which we need to stop.   I'm not really sure the best way to do it though.

I agree...to me there is a difference in cutting weight, and wrestling at the most optimal weight...which may mean loosing weight...but in the "right way", whatever that means to people.

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15 hours ago, ionel said:

This practice was supposed to have ended decades ago but when its 90/100f out, unbelievable!  :(

We do a terrible job of explaining dietary  changes and how you can lose weight without being drastic all the time.   We do hydration testing in college which is comical, because guys lose 10-15 lbs then do hydration testing drinking gallon jugs...then are never hydrated during actual competition.  

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Sad and scary. It reminds me of how we grew up wrestling in the 80s and 90s.  I'm surprised I'm still alive after looking back on my own weight cutting. I cut from 158 to 136.5 for the 1990 Espoir nationals in Indiana and I was always naturally lean. For my final cut I put on my yellow rubber rain gear under my sweats and went for a run in the humid 100 degree mid afternoon sun. I remember barely being able to make it back to my hotel room. And I know I'm not alone. I also know I would have had more success in college if I wrestled up one weight class each year and I would have enjoyed it a whole lot more. 

 

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5 minutes ago, wrestlingshoe said:

Sad and scary. It reminds me of how we grew up wrestling in the 80s and 90s.  I'm surprised I'm still alive after looking back on my own weight cutting. I cut from 158 to 136.5 for the 1990 Espoir nationals in Indiana and I was always naturally lean. For my final cut I put on my yellow rubber rain gear under my sweats and went for a run in the humid 100 degree mid afternoon sun. I remember barely being able to make it back to my hotel room. And I know I'm not alone. I also know I would have had more success in college if I wrestled up one weight class each year and I would have enjoyed it a whole lot more. 

 

Everyone on this board knows this story and almost all of us have done this stuff.

Isn't it time we did better for the next generation?

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1 minute ago, Mike Parrish said:

Everyone on this board knows this story and almost all of us have done this stuff.

Isn't it time we did better for the next generation?

Past due. I coached for 20 plus years and worked hard to educate on good nutrition, eating patterns, hydration, and proper weight loss. You can influence your athletes, but that doesn't always work when they are on their own and want to find a competitive advantage. 

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On 7/7/2022 at 8:09 AM, 1032004 said:

I'm not really convinced mat side weigh ins are the solution unless you're also doing matside hydration testing.   Might even be worse honestly since guys (albeit probably a smaller #) will still cut weight and won't be able to refuel before wrestling.

This was the same terrible argument against hour before weigh ins. You’re wrong. The amount of people cutting weight and the amount of weight they cut will be drastically reduced. No one’s going to cut more weight bc of mat side weigh ins. Sure, some dummys will try their normal weight cutting routine at first and not refuel during the day, but they’ll quickly learn how terrible that idea is when they’re losing to inferior opponents. They’re not going to die in a tournament because of it, they’ll get pinned before that happens. There’s no logical argument against it.

Edited by simple

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On 7/7/2022 at 8:17 AM, dman115 said:

In my opinion it is a harder problem to solve than just changing rules that are already in place to try and stop this.  I think it needs to be changed at the cultural/behavioral level of the sport...earth shattering I know...but a super hard thing to do.  To many "old school" people left in the sport...I am not putting all the blame on them, but rather it is a hard thing to change when it may have worked for you as a coach and you are coaching a kid that you know will be very successful if he/she can just cut those last few pounds.   Versus, maybe trying to get to a point where the "norm" is you wrestle at your natural/healthy weight and figure out how to be successful there.  Easy concepts but extremely hard to do across the board.  I grew up in the era of rubber suits and sauna sweat sessions, and it is WAY better now than it was back then.  In the program I am involved in we DO NOT allow this on our watch.  We can't control what happens at home though obviously.  Just a tough thing to stop all together.  

My sympathies go out to that poor kids family...so sad!

Lol was it a cultural change or was it a literal rule change from day before to one hour before weigh ins? Cultural change won’t happen until the rules do.

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On 7/7/2022 at 8:46 AM, 1032004 said:

You're not going to get rid of cutting weight. The fact is cutting some weight is usually beneficial.  It's cutting a ton of weight that often isn't which we need to stop.   I'm not really sure the best way to do it though.

In what way is “cutting” weight beneficial?

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