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Stuart1

My take on Dake

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He is a great wrestler, his college accomplishments are on par with the best ever, but have always found him extremely cocky. Was not surprised by his comments before the burroughs match. When you win so many matches and titles and your coaches, competition tell you how great you are day in and day out think it brainwashes you to think you are unbeatable. He will grow up a bit after this match and will possibly challenge burroughs in the future.

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He is a great wrestler, his college accomplishments are on par with the best ever, but have always found him extremely cocky. Was not surprised by his comments before the burroughs match. When you win so many matches and titles and your coaches, competition tell you how great you are day in and day out think it brainwashes you to think you are unbeatable. He will grow up a bit after this match and will possibly challenge burroughs in the future.

 

Confidence never hurts. My take is that he came off three matches, including a marathon with Howe, and that you cannot be half a step slow against Burroughs.

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Dake is top 2 in the US, likely top 5 to 8 in the World. He's grown up. I have a feeling he doesn't care if some people don't like the fact he refuses to defer to the greatness of Burroughs. He won't stop coming, and will likely continue to refuse to accept defeat. He'll continue to push Burroughs to be the best, or will catch him and be the best himself. Either way, I seriously doubt he learned anything because some internet forum know it alls don't like how he answered a question.

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Dake is no Stuart Smalley. His confidence is his strength. He doesn't need to "grow up". You don't wrestle like he just did without that kind of supreme confidence. He needed to make some adjustments - and he did -better than anyone else we've seen wrestle Burroughs... including Tsargush and Goudarzi.

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My final take is that Dake has the physical tools to compete with Burroughs. The issue for me was always whether Burroughs was just too explosive.
Burroughs is super explosive, Dake might learn how to handle that in the future, but for anyone not used to wrestling him its hard. I don't think JB's conditioning is where it needs to be, even gassed though he had enough to pull the last match out. How many people could do that sucking wind against Dake?

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My final take is that Dake has the physical tools to compete with Burroughs. The issue for me was always whether Burroughs was just too explosive.
Burroughs is super explosive, Dake might learn how to handle that in the future, but for anyone not used to wrestling him its hard. I don't think JB's conditioning is where it needs to be, even gassed though he had enough to pull the last match out. How many people could do that sucking wind against Dake?

 

While Burroughs looked like he might be too quick for Dake in the first match, I thought that Dake adjusted well in the second match, staying very low for most of the match and then breaking quickly into upper body ties, where Burroughs is uncomfortable. Even with that adjustment, Burroughs was still able to take him down from the open a few times. I look forward to seeing more matches between the two of them.

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My final take is that Dake has the physical tools to compete with Burroughs. The issue for me was always whether Burroughs was just too explosive.
Burroughs is super explosive, Dake might learn how to handle that in the future, but for anyone not used to wrestling him its hard. I don't think JB's conditioning is where it needs to be, even gassed though he had enough to pull the last match out. How many people could do that sucking wind against Dake?

 

While Burroughs looked like he might be too quick for Dake in the first match, I thought that Dake adjusted well in the second match, staying very low for most of the match and then breaking quickly into upper body ties, where Burroughs is uncomfortable. Even with that adjustment, Burroughs was still able to take him down from the open a few times. I look forward to seeing more matches between the two of them.

 

Let's not discount JBs ability to adjust. When he wrestled the Russian in NY- lost the first period then beat him up.

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The truth is the U.S. has the top FOUR 74kg wrestlers in the world. The margin between Burroughs and our top three contenders (Dake, Taylor, and Howe) is slim. I can't think of a guy that Burroughs beats Internationally that Dake, Taylor, or Howe can't also beat.

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I was just talking about Dake's ability to adjust to Burroughs's quickness, which looked to be too much for Dake in the first match. The first match looked like a physical mismatch, but by the second it was clear that Dake could hang in physically.

 

Having said that, even in the first match, Dake nearly scored two off of a Burroughs double, so even in the first match there were signs that Burroughs would not be too explosive for him.

 

Of course, as you point out, Burroughs is pretty good at making adjustments too -- he won both matches.

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Burroughs wants to wrestle dake as little as possible because the more they wrestle the more dake adjusts, amd if dake sees him 2 maybe even one more time he will never lose to him again, like Taylor he just knows how to beat him

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I am a fan of both wrestlers and I wish there was somehow room for both of them. I wouldn't expect any other statement coming from either of them. To succeed at that level you have to have the mindset that you are the best in the world. It just happens that Burroughs thought the same thing.

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The truth is the U.S. has the top FOUR 74kg wrestlers in the world. The margin between Burroughs and our top three contenders (Dake, Taylor, and Howe) is slim. I can't think of a guy that Burroughs beats Internationally that Dake, Taylor, or Howe can't also beat.

 

put the beer down. goudarzi, tsargush, khubezhty, aliyev, .... could they beat these guys? sure. they are not the top 4.

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I think in the first match, Burroughs explosiveness surprised Dake. Obviously Dake knew he was explosive having trained with him and watching him, however it was a notch above what he was used to from College and even the mini tournament. Adjusting in the second match was part of it, but the toss for three is what really changed the match in my mind. Burroughs was not respecting him until then and after that toss, he realized he was in a match.

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What are you basing that on? None of them have big wins over top notch 74kg guys. I hope you're right, that's just a baseless speculation. Howe got throttled by Geduev when he was Russia's #3. Wrestling Burroughs tight when these three are familiar with his style is one thing -- beating top foreigners is something else that doesn't necessarily translate.

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Burroughs wants to wrestle dake as little as possible because the more they wrestle the more dake adjusts, amd if dake sees him 2 maybe even one more time he will never lose to him again, like Taylor he just knows how to beat him

 

That you think Dake is just going to bypass JB after another match or two is comical. Dake was Burroughs training partner leading up to the Olympics last year so I think it's safe to say JB doesn't seemed real concerned with avoiding Dake. If that wasn't enough exposure to Jordan to beat him, then one or two more matches is highly unlikely to get him over the hump in itself, especially in the way you predict where Dake never loses to him again.

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The majority of the board has to realize that everyone cheering against Kyle Dake over the past 4 years, that have been proven wrong repeatedly, is going to knock him down this evening. Kyle Dake was nothing short of amazing today and I think it's apparent he's not going to lose many more matches in his international career (regardless of who it is). Let's remember Kyle Dake has been training full-time for 3 months.....

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This love affair with Dake is comical. This guy can do no wrong to anyone on this forum. He's one of the cockiest people ive seen, yet thats a strength. Soneone else acts that way, and half the forum would be up and arms about it. JB won us a gold. He is undefeated. He has been praised up and down on this forum. We love him. He has been talked about on here that he may never lose. All of a sudden Dake beats him? He is gonna pass him in the next year? Where does this unreasonable obsession with kid dynamite come from. The first match is more of an indication of where they are than the 2nd one imo. Dake isnt close. He's still sick though not saying he's not. JB is the best in the world.

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This love affair with Dake is comical. This guy can do no wrong to anyone on this forum. He's one of the cockiest people ive seen, yet thats a strength. Soneone else acts that way, and half the forum would be up and arms about it. JB won us a gold. He is undefeated. He has been praised up and down on this forum. We love him. He has been talked about on here that he may never lose. All of a sudden Dake beats him? He is gonna pass him in the next year? Where does this unreasonable obsession with kid dynamite come from. The first match is more of an indication of where they are than the 2nd one imo. Dake isnt close. He's still sick though not saying he's not. JB is the best in the world.

 

Enough with the "us" and "we". I root for him, but he didn't win me anything last summer and I owe him nothing (and vice versa).

 

Dake has been underestimated by most for over 4 years now. He overcame Paulsen, Taylor and Howe in a couple of hours, when many didn't think he'd beat any of them. Then, it took him all of one match to change his style and take Burroughs to OT. If you don't like how he answers questions, don't listen.

Burroughs hasn't been challenged by an American for years. It will make things more interesting for Burroughs to be challenged both internationally and at home - I have the distinct feeling that neither Dake or Taylor is going to stop until they catch him. 2016 is a long time away, it'll be tough to stay on top that long.

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And how many tournaments/big wins against top international talent does Dake/Howe/Taylor have? Everyone needs to slow themselves down with this ridiculous Dake obsession until he has time to build up some international experience. JB is battle tested and proven against the best competition in the world in some of the toughest venues in the world. It truly is humorous.

 

Absolutely love JBs comments after the end of the match, "Kyle Dake is just a national champ. David Taylor is just a national champ. There was only one World Team member in the entire weight class other than myself. So I think it was a little overhyped, but it was good for the fans." I couldn't have stated it better myself.

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Wow.....people are just crazy sometimes.....people do realize that Burroughs is undefeated on the senior level...right?? He did tech Dake rather easily in the first match? Now Dake is going to beat Burroughs in 2016....man people are crazy!! This guy is probably the best overal wrestler in the world right now. No disrespect to Dake, he would probably be on the team at any other weight that Burrough or Howe isn't at (yes I still think Howe is better than Dake). I love Dake's confidence, his style, his desire, etc......but can't stand his nut huggers on this forum....almost worse than the PSU and Iowa nut huggers.

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Wow.....people are just crazy sometimes.....people do realize that Burroughs is undefeated on the senior level...right?? He did tech Dake rather easily in the first match? Now Dake is going to beat Burroughs in 2016....man people are crazy!! This guy is probably the best overal wrestler in the world right now. No disrespect to Dake, he would probably be on the team at any other weight that Burrough or Howe isn't at (yes I still think Howe is better than Dake). I love Dake's confidence, his style, his desire, etc......but can't stand his nut huggers on this forum....almost worse than the PSU and Iowa nut huggers.

 

Brog, you and are I finally in agreement!

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