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jross

Multiple Qualifiers from same team at NCAA Tourney

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I know the collegiate open is a thing, but maybe we should have an NIT tournament the week before NCAAs. Postseason wrestling is awesome and all the dudes at D1 have some legit skill. Might as well put it on display. 

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There are 250+ D1 schools with tennis across ~30 D1 conference possibilities.  Automatic qualification into the Division I singles championship is awarded to any conference with one or more eligible singles players ranked in the ITA Top 125 for eligible/entered singles players.  13 conferences were awarded in 2021 for having met the Top 125 criteria.  The remaining 51 singles players in the 64-man bracket were selected at large.  Somehow tennis sponsorship survives in conferences and schools that do not have D1 NCAA bracket representation.  

How much cost is increased by expanding the wrestling bracket?  

Increasing the at-large selection would result in the best of the best for AA.

Edited by jross

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I know everyone has seen the faces of the all americans on Saturday.  They are beat up along with their bodies.  It would be insane to add another day and another match or two and an additional weigh in to a brutal tournament.

Edited by Boompa

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5 minutes ago, jross said:

There are 250+ D1 schools with tennis across ~30 D1 conference possibilities.  Automatic qualification into the Division I singles championship is awarded to any conference with one or more eligible singles players ranked in the ITA Top 125 for eligible/entered singles players.  13 conferences were awarded in 2021 for having met the Top 125 criteria.  The remaining 51 singles players in the 64-man bracket were selected at large.  Somehow tennis sponsorship survives in conferences and schools that do not have D1 NCAA bracket representation.  

How much cost is increased by expanding the wrestling bracket?  

Increasing the at-large selection would result in the best of the best for AA.

Not sure it would be a cost. Could be profitable. More hotels, more concessions, more tickets sold and more media rights. 

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1 hour ago, TheHeel said:

Not sure it would be a cost. Could be profitable. More hotels, more concessions, more tickets sold and more media rights. 

The NCAA incurs the cost of the qualifiers. Doubling it probably wouldn't be made up by whatever hotel kickbacks, concessions or tickets that come with the expanded field. You'd need another day of the arena or a bigger arena, you'd increase ticket prices, but it'd be the same 18-19K fans unless you went to a stadium, which increases the cost considerably. If you didn't increase the size of the venue, you'd end up with more parents wanting to get in, but the same finite number of all-session tickets, which the NCAA wants you to buy first and makes available first. When they're snatched up - because they always get snatched up - your single sessions COULD be available or you go the secondary market. 

Also, FIVE of the 90 championships make money. Men's basketball, Men's College World Series, Men's Frozen Four, Men's Lacrosse and Men's Wrestling. Only one of those is an individual sport. Now take the rest of the 85 championships that would have some type of movement/complaint if wrestling got doubled - the NCAA's loss on those individual sports especially, where there aren't groups except maybe FloSports clamoring for media rights, would be significantly increased. Outside of FBS football being in its own championship bubble and men's and women's basketball (mostly) moving in sync in many ways, it isn't that simple. 

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7 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

The NCAA incurs the cost of the qualifiers. Doubling it probably wouldn't be made up by whatever hotel kickbacks, concessions or tickets that come with the expanded field. You'd need another day of the arena or a bigger arena, you'd increase ticket prices, but it'd be the same 18-19K fans unless you went to a stadium, which increases the cost considerably. If you didn't increase the size of the venue, you'd end up with more parents wanting to get in, but the same finite number of all-session tickets, which the NCAA wants you to buy first and makes available first. When they're snatched up - because they always get snatched up - your single sessions COULD be available or you go the secondary market. 

Also, FIVE of the 90 championships make money. Men's basketball, Men's College World Series, Men's Frozen Four, Men's Lacrosse and Men's Wrestling. Only one of those is an individual sport. Now take the rest of the 85 championships that would have some type of movement/complaint if wrestling got doubled - the NCAA's loss on those individual sports especially, where there aren't groups except maybe FloSports clamoring for media rights, would be significantly increased. Outside of FBS football being in its own championship bubble and men's and women's basketball (mostly) moving in sync in many ways, it isn't that simple. 

awesome data, makes me think. thank you 

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Tennis has 64 spots for an individual championship bracket and multiple same-school athletes compete for the individual championship. 

Swimming has its own qualification criteria for an individual championship bracket and multiple same-school athletes compete for the individual championship. 

Each sport should determine what is best for itself and it does not "deserve" anything because of what another sport decides is best for them.  IMO what is best for wrestling is to allow the best individuals to complete regardless of their school.

What discussions are already occurring at NCAA corporate given many sports currently run their selection process differently?  

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1 hour ago, jross said:

Tennis has 64 spots for an individual championship bracket and multiple same-school athletes compete for the individual championship. 

Each sport should determine what is best for itself and it does not "deserve" anything because of what another sport decides is best for them.  IMO what is best for wrestling is to allow the best individuals to complete regardless of their school.

What discussions are already occurring at NCAA corporate given many sports currently run their selection process differently?  

I think we're stuck waiting until the D1 Transformation Committee gets done and decides the landscape for revenue sports first, then non-revenue/Olympic sports will be forced to follow along. That's the world we live in with the NCAA. System is broken and every sport outside of those money sports has to wait and see. 

From a qualification standpoint, D1 wrestling is fortunate to have the # of qualifiers it has at 330. There's no way we're getting more there. I totally like multiple qualifiers in a system like the NAIA and California JC's have on the men's side. 

Each sport essentially does determine what's best for itself and their tournament qualifiers. Those qualifiers and allotments come through coaches associations that in turn, go to NCAA committees. For example, the current qualification scenario started out as a suggestion at the NWCA Convention. If the coaches associations or sports themselves don't do it, you'd have gotten an NCAA-implemented solution which would likely have been (At the time) 12-13 conference champion auto-bids and the rest of the field selected at-large. 

I can't speak on what's happening with NCAA corporate, and I don't think anyone but who's in the building knows. 

It's all about choice though. You want to win a Division I championship, go to a Division I school. You want to make the NCAA tournament? Well right now, the process is first, get into college, then win the starting spot. If you want to compete in college and not win your starting spot and wrestle for a championship, there's that NAIA option. 

But ultimately, if the NCAA is footing the bill for its championship qualifiers, there does need to be some balance and fairness in what sports get what, especially when pretty much all of them are money sucks. FB and MBB/WBB are out of the discussion. They're going to do what they're going to do because MBB provides revenue for each of the 351 Division I teams at the moment. 

 

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