Folk vs free

[ChicagoHawk 47]

Lots of off season chatter basically about everything in folk stinks (stalling, the edge of the mat, pushout etc) and free is amazing etc.  

there seems to be no buzz and very little chatter in the international forum about the us open.  The national championship across multiple age divisions and styles. The pinnacle of the sport domestically outside the wtt…. And yet  barely seems like an event is even going on.   
 

compare that to the drama and excitement of conference + ncaa tournament.   Crazy.  
 

I’ll take folk all day…. Superior product from the fans perspective imo.  

[Casper 108]

Much prefer folkstyle even if it needs some tweaking.

Push out might help at times.

I like riding time but do not like it piling up with the top guy failing to work towards a pin. Just riding and looking busy is stalling - call and penalize it.

No "great amplitude" (or whatever it is called) for subjective points is needed. Too much like ice skating and synchronized swimming - total judgment and worthless.

Could add an extra half point for pins in the first period - might even push more wrestlers to go for it.

[Eagle26 606]

That’s not a fair comparison because NCAAs are the highest peak in folkstyle wrestling. The world championships or at least WTT are a better comparison. But still you are right folkstyle is way more popular here. I just a cultural thing… we like what we are comfortable and familiar with. The vast majority of people that know and understand both free and folk prefer free.

[JasonBryant 2,116]

Too much like ice skating and synchronized swimming - total judgment and worthless.

It’s nothing like those sports - nothing at all.

[Fletcher 1,130]

People who prefer folkstyle and those that prefer freestyle all seem to agree on the same pain points. We all also seem to agree on the appropriate ways to fix them or at least meet in the middle (push out rule, fewer stalling calls to decide matches, get rid of riding time/discourage riding without offense, etc.). If we all agree that these modifications would improve the product, why don't the rule-makers do anything?

At the very least, couldn't someone pilot these changes in an exhibition tourney so we can see how they shake out on the real world?

[jp157 550]

47 minutes ago, Fletcher said:

People who prefer folkstyle and those that prefer freestyle all seem to agree on the same pain points. We all also seem to agree on the appropriate ways to fix them or at least meet in the middle (push out rule, fewer stalling calls to decide matches, get rid of riding time/discourage riding without offense, etc.). If we all agree that these modifications would improve the product, why don't the rule-makers do anything?

At the very least, couldn't someone pilot these changes in an exhibition tourney so we can see how they shake out on the real world?

Do you understand how hard the process of rule changes is? 

[Fletcher 1,130]

3 minutes ago, jp157 said:

Do you understand how hard the process of rule changes is? 

Actually no. I'll take your word for it.

[TampaRyley 14]

I've always preferred folk as an athlete and spectator, I think the rule change on stalling for backing out has been a big plus for the sport at the collegiate level (and also not having to be shaved... what a great way to spread skin disease on newly opened skin). I do think there could be improvement on mat wrestling, it is frustrating to see a guy on top not trying to turn at all, stay behind the hips and then see the bottom guy get hit for stalling.

[Plasmodium 2,307]

Folk has the problem of NCAAs being the pinnacle.  Freestyle has no problems 

[TampaRyley 14]

5 minutes ago, Plasmodium said:

Folk has the problem of NCAAs being the pinnacle.  Freestyle has no problems 

I'm not sure how you classify that as a problem? Freestyle has Worlds and Olympics as the pinnacle.

[GockeS 549]

this forum is like twitter

4% of the population 

all with big voices

disconnected from reality

thats why none of OUR rule changes see the light of day

;-)

Edited May 1 by GockeS

[nom 1,208]

Silly comparisons.  
 

There are some out there that very much enjoy a top rider … riding … with no real attempts at turns. Simply being active while holding a person down.  Now that I have learned that the top rider has no obligation to attempt turns in college wrestling, I’m no long as upset by watching a wrestler do it.   I’m still not going to enjoy watching it all that much though. 
 

It is the worst part of folkstyle in my opinion.  
 

Second worst is the ability to flee a hold / the mat …. 
 

Freestyle is often a better product but I do agree that the subjectivity on who gets what points drives me nuts sometimes.  I appreciate that folk is far less subjective.

Edited May 1 by nom

[jp157 550]

Freestyle when the refs are educated if awesome. But nothing is worse than watching (almost always older refs who refuse to keep up with rules or take part in official education) get the big mats. Then watching the good/educated refs get frustrated watching 

[TexRef 113]

I enjoy FS/GR but I don't enjoy officiating by committee. If you get a person to wear the wristbands, colored sleeves on a shirt, sport coat, and blow a whistle, then empower that person to make the call. 

At least now the corruption over seas isn't as bad. 

[gowrestle 697]

19 hours ago, ChicagoHawk said:

Lots of off season chatter basically about everything in folk stinks (stalling, the edge of the mat, pushout etc) and free is amazing etc.  

there seems to be no buzz and very little chatter in the international forum about the us open.  The national championship across multiple age divisions and styles. The pinnacle of the sport domestically outside the wtt…. And yet  barely seems like an event is even going on.   
 

compare that to the drama and excitement of conference + ncaa tournament.   Crazy.  
 

I’ll take folk all day…. Superior product from the fans perspective imo.  

Folk is better. 

[TheHeel 71]

This is predominantly a college board, so I don't think there are as many freestyle fans on here, in general. When you say that "its quiet around here" your perception might be a bit skewed. 

 

Freestyle is the pinnacle of the sport, both internationally and here at home. Whether you like it or not, Olympic and World glory is much more meaningful than NCAA titles. 

 

Also, for whatever reason, the US Open looks like the worst in history. Caffey, a no time AA from MSU wins it. I don't know if its an indictment against his college coaches that they couldn't get AA hardware with that stud, or if its a case of that weight just not being very good this year, or a combo of both. Gabe Townsell wouldn't have been seeded at NCAAs this year and he was the 1 seed at his weight. Just a weird weird tournament.

[TheHeel 71]

1 hour ago, TexRef said:

I enjoy FS/GR but I don't enjoy officiating by committee. If you get a person to wear the wristbands, colored sleeves on a shirt, sport coat, and blow a whistle, then empower that person to make the call. 

At least now the corruption over seas isn't as bad. 

The chances of 3 people blowing a call is lower than the chances of 1 person. Its more fair for the athletes. How many times have we seen the mat official get overridden by the judge and the chair? Happens all the time. Better to be right than to worry about a refs feelings. Look at the US Open finals match with Caffey. The ref gave him 5 and wanted 2 more for fleeing which was a terrible call. The 2 other refs didn't confirm the 2 and the right call came out of it because of the 3 person system. 

[gimpeltf 2,085]

17 minutes ago, TheHeel said:

The chances of 3 people blowing a call is lower than the chances of 1 person. Its more fair for the athletes. How many times have we seen the mat official get overridden by the judge and the chair? Happens all the time. Better to be right than to worry about a refs feelings. Look at the US Open finals match with Caffey. The ref gave him 5 and wanted 2 more for fleeing which was a terrible call. The 2 other refs didn't confirm the 2 and the right call came out of it because of the 3 person system. 

And- folkstyle is more about control so it's better to wait through a situation before making a call, in which case one person can be right more often.

In freestyle, it's more about physical positions where you might quickly go through a scoring position. This requires officials at different angles and perspectives to put their heads together.

[GockeS 549]

2 hours ago, TheHeel said:

The chances of 3 people blowing a call is lower than the chances of 1 person. Its more fair for the athletes. How many times have we seen the mat official get overridden by the judge and the chair? Happens all the time. Better to be right than to worry about a refs feelings. Look at the US Open finals match with Caffey. The ref gave him 5 and wanted 2 more for fleeing which was a terrible call. The 2 other refs didn't confirm the 2 and the right call came out of it because of the 3 person system. 

the chances of owning one of three people is greater than one of one

but they still gave one.. where was the fleeing... what was trumble to do?

the three of them still blew it. it's almost worse than the replays/challenges

Edited May 1 by GockeS

[Billyhoyle 2,500]

Freestyle is much better, but completely eliminating folkstyle immediately will be tough. I think it’s worth adding a couple small rule changes:

1. Push out 1 point 

2. Allow moves that start in bounds to be finished out of bounds and still score points.

3. Feet to back scores 3 or 5 for high amplitude throw (5 only for NCAA level). 
 

4. After 60 seconds of riding, wrestlers are brought back to their feet. Call stalling faster in these situation.

5. 1 second Nearfall is 1 point. 
 

6. 10 point techfall 

Edited May 2 by Billyhoyle

[Billyhoyle 2,500]

6 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

And- folkstyle is more about control so it's better to wait through a situation before making a call, in which case one person can be right more often.

In freestyle, it's more about physical positions where you might quickly go through a scoring position. This requires officials at different angles and perspectives to put their heads together.

“Control” is boring. Football and basketball are exciting because they are explosive, athletic sports. Folkstyle used to display that type of explosion with guys like Banach and Lewboo. Freestyle allows for it. Just look at Dake, who was one of the most boring folkstyle wrestlers, but is a highlight reel in freestyle. 

[GreatWhiteNorth 556]

The future is freestyle.

Folkstyle was awesome.

So were IROC Camaros, digital cameras, VCR's, and cool posters of hot babes...

[jackwebster 330]

8 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

“Control” is boring. Football and basketball are exciting because they are explosive, athletic sports.

My dad likes UVA BBall. He's a racist. There ya go, nom.

Edited May 2 by jackwebster

[Wrestleknownothing 1,638]

9 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

The future is freestyle.

Folkstyle was awesome.

So were IROC Camaros, digital cameras, VCR's, and cool posters of hot babes...

At least one of those things still is awesome.

[ionel 2,730]

48 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

At least one of those things still is awesome.

No idea what two things you are talking about. :)