Thoughts on Russia's Banishment?

[EM_1996 15]

The Ukraine invasion is turning into quite a protracted affair and may not be ending well anytime soon.  It just got me thinking to when, if ever, we will see the likes of Sadulaev or Sidakov competing again in events that matter.  I'm not opposed to Russia's exclusion from athletics under the circumstances, but it would still be a shame to have careers like that end abruptly due to politics outside of their control.

[Wrestleknownothing 1,511]

On the world stage, sports have always been entwined with politics. And while it is a shame that athletes are affected negatively on occasion by the association, it cannot be ignored that they benefit from the association for more often. The state, writ large, supports athletes directly or indirectly. The bad comes with the good.

[gimpeltf 2,075]

You also have to consider the whole doping issue. The young skater gets caught too, so what will that do since they were already on double secret probation!

[NJDan 1,083]

You know what's also unfortunate: That Ukrainian civilians (or soldiers for that matter) are killed because of politics, or that Russian civilians cannot sell their in Europe oil because of politics.

The point is there are endless consequences of political decisions having grave consequences on individual who played no role in the formation of those decisions. The point of all sanctions (and the banning of countries from athletic competitions is one of many sanctions) is to impose costs on individuals in order to influence the government. It's indirect pressure, but if it works, it's worth it.

[ionel 2,563]

1 hour ago, EM_1996 said:

The Ukraine invasion is turning into quite a protracted affair and may not be ending well anytime soon.  It just got me thinking to when, if ever, we will see the likes of Sadulaev or Sidakov competing again in events that matter.  I'm not opposed to Russia's exclusion from athletics under the circumstances, but it would still be a shame to have careers like that end abruptly due to politics outside of their control.

What about the Ukrainian athletes that are too busy defending their country to participate in sport?  What about the future generations of Ukrainian athletes that won't exist if Russian were to win?  :(

[GockeS 548]

12 hours ago, NJDan said:

You know what's also unfortunate: That Ukrainian civilians (or soldiers for that matter) are killed because of politics, or that Russian civilians cannot sell their in Europe oil because of politics.

The point is there are endless consequences of political decisions having grave consequences on individual who played no role in the formation of those decisions. The point of all sanctions (and the banning of countries from athletic competitions is one of many sanctions) is to impose costs on individuals in order to influence the government. It's indirect pressure, but if it works, it's worth it.

if it works... nothing we have done to russia or china or iran has 'worked' . ever. they wield too much power over us and our partners. see the NBA. etc and we let them in the UN.

i dont disagree with your sentinment. just cynical i guess. 

that said.. many of those russian civilians trying to sell oil are involved with putin and worse.

[BAC 248]

14 hours ago, EM_1996 said:

The Ukraine invasion is turning into quite a protracted affair and may not be ending well anytime soon.  It just got me thinking to when, if ever, we will see the likes of Sadulaev or Sidakov competing again in events that matter.  I'm not opposed to Russia's exclusion from athletics under the circumstances, but it would still be a shame to have careers like that end abruptly due to politics outside of their control.

These athletes do have an option.  They can renounce their citizenship, move, and compete for another country.

I'd say the same thing if the United States decided they wanted to annex Canada or Mexico and launched an invasion to do so.  

In fact, if that happened, I'd feel so ashamed of what my government did, that I'd WANT to renounce my citizenship and move.

Not that the US and many other countries aren't without blood on their hands for past military misadventures.  But what Russia did is orders of magnitude beyond that.

I see no problem whatsoever with rallying around a principle that (1) if your country tries to expand its territory by invading another country then it should be excluded from all international competitions (among other things), and (2) defecting athletes should be welcomed by other countries so they can gain new citizenship and compete there if they wish.

[Waste Management 53]

Keep it related to sports and its impact on wrestling. 

Only warning. 

[Jim L 328]

2 hours ago, GockeS said:

... and we let them in the UN.

 

I don't think you understand how the UN works

[gimpeltf 2,075]

14 minutes ago, Jim L said:

I don't think you understand how the UN works

The UN works?

[ionel 2,563]

3 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

The UN works?

No

[NJDan 1,083]

3 hours ago, GockeS said:

if it works... nothing we have done to russia or china or iran has 'worked' . ever. they wield too much power over us and our partners. see the NBA. etc and we let them in the UN.

i dont disagree with your sentinment. just cynical i guess. 

that said.. many of those russian civilians trying to sell oil are involved with putin and worse.

I would say a great deal has worked-- just over time. Russia is not nearly as oppressive as it once was. It no longer dominates Eastern Europe-- just to name two.

[GockeS 548]

1 hour ago, Jim L said:

I don't think you understand how the UN works

i mean we, as the whole world... let them in the human rights council etc... 

[scribe 1,838]

Yep. So long as athletes wear the national colors and are sponsored by the state, extreme political matters will always be a factor. 

[Weems 43]

pointless, no reason to make another asterisk year

if illegally occupying land and earning the moral condemnation of the world were a problem, we wouldn't let the Zionist entity compete, but we do. Russia actually has a lot more support worldwide 

[152lbs 68]

2 minutes ago, Weems said:

pointless, no reason to make another asterisk year

if illegally occupying land and earning the moral condemnation of the world were a problem, we wouldn't let the Zionist entity compete, but we do. Russia actually has a lot more support worldwide 

Ok bootlicker

[GockeS 548]

omg

[EM_1996 15]

I'm certainly curious to see if some of the Russian superstars take their talents elsewhere.  I'd bet there are a few countries out there that would make them pretty enticing offers.  Or just imagine how the forums would respond if they enrolled at PSU!

[TripNSweep 765]

If I were in charge of sports in someplace like Qatar or Oman, I would open up the checkbook for Sadulaev. 

[1032004 1,461]

2 hours ago, TripNSweep said:

If I were in charge of sports in someplace like Qatar or Oman, I would open up the checkbook for Sadulaev. 

Wouldn’t Azerbaijan or Georgia be the easiest for the Dagestan guys?  Although no clue on the ability to get paid.

[TripNSweep 765]

56 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Wouldn’t Azerbaijan or Georgia be the easiest for the Dagestan guys?  Although no clue on the ability to get paid.

Qatar or Oman could pay a lot more. Or the UAE, Kuwait or Bahrain. 

[nom 1,193]

At this time, all signs of disloyalty to Putin are a major risk to people and their families.  I can’t see wrestlers leaving to wrestle elsewhere in this environment.

I view sport as a way to build bridges.  So this exclusion of Russia is sad.  But I get it.  The government sponsored and organized doping program put them on probation (should have been banned).  Invading their neighbor to assert their dominance likely would have resulted in the current ban even if not on probation.  But combined — wow.  

 

[NJDan 1,083]

13 hours ago, EM_1996 said:

I'm certainly curious to see if some of the Russian superstars take their talents elsewhere.  I'd bet there are a few countries out there that would make them pretty enticing offers.  Or just imagine how the forums would respond if they enrolled at PSU!

It's one thing to emigrate. But world the world wrestling authorities allow them to just start wrestling for another country? Aren't there rules restricting that sort of thing?