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IronChef

Cael's full argument against

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I think two words come into play here...LUCK and MANAGEMENT...

 

>>>You COULD win the DUAL TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP with more LUCK than Management

 

>>>You CAN'T win a NCAA TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP with more Luck than MANAGEMENT

 

P.S. The PSU "Train" is prepared to battle either way and LUCK will have nothing to do with it!!!

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I think two words come into play here...LUCK and MANAGEMENT...

 

>>>You COULD win the DUAL TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP with more LUCK than Management

 

>>>You CAN'T win a NCAA TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP with more Luck than MANAGEMENT

 

P.S. The PSU "Train" is prepared to battle either way and LUCK will have nothing to do with it!!!

I disagree. It takes more management to win a dual team title than a tournament team title, with bumping up to avoid matchups and whatnot.

 

P.S. Penn State would have to figure to be the odds-on favorite to win an NCAA Championship this year under either format.

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Like Mr. Brown bumping up to 197...You could have many 7 minute wonders but if Mr. Brown had to wrestle the NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT @ 197 he would have been 1-2 at best...Now if he wrestled 174 his normal weight who knows!!!

 

I think two words come into play here...LUCK and MANAGEMENT...

 

>>>You COULD win the DUAL TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP with more LUCK than Management

 

>>>You CAN'T win a NCAA TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP with more Luck than MANAGEMENT

 

P.S. The PSU "Train" is prepared to battle either way and LUCK will have nothing to do with it!!!

I disagree. It takes more management to win a dual team title than a tournament team title, with bumping up to avoid matchups and whatnot.

 

P.S. Penn State would have to figure to be the odds-on favorite to win an NCAA Championship this year under either format.

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You ever think the reason why they aren't actively involved is because they feel the Nwca isn't relevant?

if so, it was a serious miscalculation on their part, now wasn't it?

The question is, should the NWCA be relevant based on the way they mishandled the proposed changes? The teams, coaches, and student athletes owe it to themselves to do what is right for their team. They really don't owe the NWCA anything. With or without sanctioned team scoring at the individual team championships we'll all know who the team champion of the NCAA individual tournament is, with or without the trophy. Maybe a team like PSU will continue to not participate in the dual championships and do what they think is right for their team while beating the "dual champions" in a regular season dual and beat the "dual champions" in the individual championships team race. If this were to happen, who do you think would be irrelevant?

It's really about competition and winning. Not about having a bad idea shoved down peoples throats.

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The question is, should the NWCA be relevant based on the way they mishandled the proposed changes?

 

 

So you are suggesting the organization that represents wrestling coaches shouldn't be taken seriously by the NCAA?

 

If, as you said, the coaches owe it to themselves to do what is right for their team...participating in this organization would be a good step in that direction.

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Haven't been around in awhile, long busy summer. I jump on and see all this hate "again" for Mr. Sanderson, and even another reference to the "scandal" to try and drag his name in it. What does this mean? Means he is earning his salary and WINNING. The rules were there and he recruited and coached according to that format. Best way to beat him.... change the format.

 

I haven't read any topics but this, so maybe this has been asked before.... what the hell does a bonus point mean now in the NCAA tournament? Sounds more like a transfer of power agenda than it does a well tested savior of the sport of wrestling.

 

I really hope, like we all do I'm sure that this doesn't just destroy the sport altogether.

It already slightly lessens the dominance of OK ST and IA due to the fact that nobody has the chance now to prove their worth in that club.

 

Careful what you wish for......

 

SHP- Even if you believe PSU to be the favorites either way (as I do), it's much, much closer under a dual format.

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The current NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT is the SUPERBOWL of NCAA college Wrestling...The Best of the Best...How you get there is a playoff system that has been in place for years and tweaked to make things as "FAIR" as they can be and now you want to change when things are on the... ;)

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You do realize that NWCA stands for national wrestling coaches assoc. correct. You remind me of the people who try to separate a union from its members. The nwca's board members are the coaches! The attitude Cael and Brands have taken is to do what is best for their teams not necessarily what is best for the sport. I don't really blame them for that but it is what it is. The duals don't stand a chance unless they are a true national duals. To try to oppose this based on past nat duals is not acknowledging that without a full participation there can be no accurate data.

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The question is, should the NWCA be relevant based on the way they mishandled the proposed changes?

 

 

So you are suggesting the organization that represents wrestling coaches shouldn't be taken seriously by the NCAA?

 

If, as you said, the coaches owe it to themselves to do what is right for their team...participating in this organization would be a good step in that direction.

 

Not if the said organization isn't doing what's in the best interest of the sport. Sounds like we should develop a new coaches organization and promote that instead.

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I see Cael's subterfuge work in attempt to keep the status quo, as a bad idea. His methods of antagonizing on twitter is aggressive and akin to this notion of shoving his vision down people's throats.

 

I am glad the committee put this thing up for a vote amongst the coaches. I can live with the majority opinion and have little patience for a loud minority.

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39-36 who are the 36 and of those 36 who puts the fans in the seats???

 

I see Cael's subterfuge work in attempt to keep the status quo, as a bad idea. His methods of antagonizing on twitter is aggressive and akin to this notion of shoving his vision down people's throats.

 

I am glad the committee put this thing up for a vote amongst the coaches. I can live with the majority opinion and have little patience for a loud minority.

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I see Cael's subterfuge work in attempt to keep the status quo, as a bad idea. His methods of antagonizing on twitter is aggressive and akin to this notion of shoving his vision down people's throats.

 

I am glad the committee put this thing up for a vote amongst the coaches. I can live with the majority opinion and have little patience for a loud minority.

 

 

48% isn't ever going to be quiet. I like the "spin" you put on it though.

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BTW, just for comparison's sake, how many Penn State duals failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Southern Scuffle this past year? (hint: All of the Penn State duals that failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Scuffle, the better-attended date, were on the road, so don't bother looking at duals at Rec Hall)

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BTW, just for comparison's sake, how many Penn State duals failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Southern Scuffle this past year? (hint: All of the Penn State duals that failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Scuffle, the better-attended date, were on the road, so don't bother looking at duals at Rec Hall)

 

 

How do they match up to the NCAA championships?

 

How about a team with less of a following. How do those numbers match up to Southern Scuffle?

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Not if the said organization isn't doing what's in the best interest of the sport. Sounds like we should develop a new coaches organization and promote that instead.

 

 

That sounds like an opinion, which you are entitled too. Do you recognize that the entire NWCA committee and a majority of D-1 coaches have a different opinion and have agreed to move forward with the proposal?

 

I think you should move forward with your new coaches organization. Good luck with it.

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BTW, just for comparison's sake, how many Penn State duals failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Southern Scuffle this past year? (hint: All of the Penn State duals that failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Scuffle, the better-attended date, were on the road, so don't bother looking at duals at Rec Hall)

 

 

How do they match up to the NCAA championships?

 

How about a team with less of a following. How do those numbers match up to Southern Scuffle?

Obviously not favorably, but I'm not sure how relevant that is. Penn State was at the Scuffle, and could draw fans. Same with Minnesota, Cornell, Missouri, and others.

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I know what PSU attendance was and will continue to be with or without the NCAA dual championship what is your point???

 

BTW, just for comparison's sake, how many Penn State duals failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Southern Scuffle this past year? (hint: All of the Penn State duals that failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Scuffle, the better-attended date, were on the road, so don't bother looking at duals at Rec Hall)

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It's relevant when those teams who also don't qualify for National duals, will now see a reduction of numbers at the one tournament that their individuals and programs did get attention.

Nobody is worried about the wrestling programs at PSU or IA, they will be great as usual. It's the overall health of the sport and the smaller schools that get hit here.

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I know what PSU attendance was and will continue to be with or without the NCAA dual championship what is your point???

 

BTW, just for comparison's sake, how many Penn State duals failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Southern Scuffle this past year? (hint: All of the Penn State duals that failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Scuffle, the better-attended date, were on the road, so don't bother looking at duals at Rec Hall)

That more fans are willing to sit through a two-hour dual meet than one of a two-day regular season tournament, and therefore, the potential is just that much better for a dual tournament than an individual tournament attendancewise.

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I know what PSU attendance was and will continue to be with or without the NCAA dual championship what is your point???

 

BTW, just for comparison's sake, how many Penn State duals failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Southern Scuffle this past year? (hint: All of the Penn State duals that failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Scuffle, the better-attended date, were on the road, so don't bother looking at duals at Rec Hall)

That more fans are willing to sit through a two-hour dual meet than one of a two-day regular season tournament, and therefore, the potential is just that much better for a dual tournament than an individual tournament attendancewise.

 

 

Was that the case in last years National Duals?

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So we are looking to appease the fan and disregard MANAGEMENT and all that is involved to become not only an NCAA CHAMPION as well as a NCAA TEAM CHAMPION...Got it!!!

 

I know what PSU attendance was and will continue to be with or without the NCAA dual championship what is your point???

 

BTW, just for comparison's sake, how many Penn State duals failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Southern Scuffle this past year? (hint: All of the Penn State duals that failed to outdraw Day 2 of the Scuffle, the better-attended date, were on the road, so don't bother looking at duals at Rec Hall)

That more fans are willing to sit through a two-hour dual meet than one of a two-day regular season tournament, and therefore, the potential is just that much better for a dual tournament than an individual tournament attendancewise.

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I know what PSU attendance was and will continue to be with or without the NCAA dual championship what is your point???

That more fans are willing to sit through a two-hour dual meet than one of a two-day regular season tournament, and therefore, the potential is just that much better for a dual tournament than an individual tournament attendancewise.

 

 

Was that the case in last years National Duals?

Yes, National Duals (a regular-season dual tournament) outdrew the Southern Scuffle (the best-drawing regular-season individual tournament).

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